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Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

foundation.mozilla.org

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Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#31

Post by tasogare »

gattilorenz wrote: post #10
antoinebalaine wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the context: the fr gov's been acting against national interest for more than 20 years in a row. The people know it. The gov knows the people know. The gov wants to pretend it's not doing anything wrong. It could keep pretending credibly, if only people would keep their trap shut on the web. So now gov wants to control what people can see and say on the web.

> "The people know it." Why do I have strong vibes that a better way of phrasing this is " a percentage of the people who thinks the fr gov's been acting against national interest (likely the people who think /their/ interest aligns with the national interest quite closely) knows it." I mean, I don't know France and I'm no friend with "the government" and I oppose turning browsers into anything they are not supposed…

> I don't know France

Then don't try to put discredit to the saying of an insider. GP is 100% right. I've been back after about ~5 years living abroad and the country is in an astonishing decline on every plan (educational, moral, economical, political, diplomatic, security, judicial, medical, etc. the list goes one). And most of it is stemming from the policies enforced in the last decades.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#32

Post by btilly »

fluidcruft wrote: post #6

I have less than zero idea what's going on here? I understand the broad topic but exactly what is France demanding? A list of blocked URLs browsers should refuse to render? A list of IPs that are forbidden (doesn't make sense since that can be handled at ISP or OS level). Blocked words/phrases (trivially bypassed by people who have the list and can iterate on text until allowed)? Blocked links? Input fields that prev…

They want a way for a government provided list to block URLs on your browser.

I predict that hackers will find a way to replace the government list with their own in 3, 2, 1...

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#33

Post by _trackno5 »

SkySkimmer wrote: post #20

>It would set a dangerous precedent This seems to be false as the precedent already exists. sources: Étude d'impact (PDF linked in https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/dossierlegislatif/JORFDOLE000... ) says >Par ses modalités, ce dispositif est à rapprocher du dispositif de filtrage prévu au 1° de l’article L. 521-3-1 du code de la consommation, permettant aux agents de la DGCCRF d’ordonner, selon des conditions et modali…

It’s absurd that an article exists to allow French govt agents to display messages in my browser.

How is that even enforced?

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#34

Post by akomtu »

mkl95 wrote: post #13

The French government's approach to modern tech is similar to the UK and Germany in some ways. They seem to be advised by a bunch of decrepit dudes who stopped learning about computers before the OSI model was created.

The old Europe feels cornered by this tech and acts aggressively to defend itself.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#35

Post by bonzini »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #17
ltadeut wrote: post #3

It would be nice if Mozilla would add more context around it. That said, it’s freaking exhausting how these dumb actions keep being taken by governments all over the world. It seems like every month there’s some new crap going on

https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2023/06/26/france-browser...

> government being able to mandate that a certain website not open at all on a browser/system is uncharted territory and even the most repressive regimes in the world prefer to block websites further up the network (ISPs, etc.) so far.

Repressive government's don't do their blocking at the browser level because it is completely ineffective. Anyone who wants to access the forbidden websites will be able to do so anyway.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#36

Post by rvnx »

tasogare wrote: post #28
mkl95 wrote: post #13

The French government's approach to modern tech is similar to the UK and Germany in some ways. They seem to be advised by a bunch of decrepit dudes who stopped learning about computers before the OSI model was created.

There're a bunch of corrupted inviduals with no counter power to keep them in check. No decisions are made for the benefit of the French people since a long time, every law passed is either to augment their power, rise taxes (already world top 1 or 2 depending on the year) or to the benefit their friends owning private companies. Of course technology freedom will suffer from this as well.

Well if majority votes for them, it's important to respect the choice of the voters, even if you don't like their choice because you have other interests that you want to defend.

The opposition in France are far from being angels, it's very similar to Democrats vs Republican situation in France (except Gauche vs Droite).

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#39

Post by rvnx »

moffkalast wrote: post #30
sinuhe69 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2023/06/26/france-browser...

> Article 6 (para II and III) of the SREN Bill would force browser providers to create the means to mandatorily block websites present on a government provided list Why would this ever be done on a browser level? Any nation with internet censoring intentions can already do this by blocking it on an ISP level.

Browsers often directly provide solutions to go around such blocking (DNS over HTTPS for example, or VPNs or proxies),

The governments cannot go and forbid browsers to do that if they don't have the law to back it.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#40

Post by bonzini »

polotics wrote: post #4
ltadeut wrote: post #3

It would be nice if Mozilla would add more context around it. That said, it’s freaking exhausting how these dumb actions keep being taken by governments all over the world. It seems like every month there’s some new crap going on

Yes indeed! is this enforced DRM everywhere or you can't browse? is this a forced french MITM certificate chain you can't remove, is this something else? how does using Tor with a non-french exit node get impacted? If I ssh over port 80 or any other to a french-located box does something change?

It seems to be a version of safe browsing that is mandated by law to be a full block rather than a warning. It will be very easy to bypass, making this a very stupid law.

It's slightly more worrisome that the law doesn't include any privacy protection measures, but the GDPR still applies and whoever runs the checking service has to comply with it since the browsing history is personal data.

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