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AI cameras catch 297 drivers in three days in Cornwall

bbc.co.uk

41–50 of 142 posts

Re: AI cameras catch 297 drivers in three days in Cornwall

#41
post #8

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” ― C. S.…

The problem is that laws are an approximation of safety and well being. When laws were all we had, the delta between the laws and the actual thing we want (safety) was not something we spent a lot of time worrying about, because we couldn't detect the difference. The law couldn't be enforced anyhow.

The problem is as we get perfect enforcement, the delta does become visible. The reality is that when a road is set to 55 mph, that is not some sort of pronouncement from God that that is the one true speed that the road is safe at. It was just an approximation. But then we set up a camera that treats it as rigid ground truth, and now you can be nailed with a ticket if you're doing 56 miles per hour.

But does that help anyone? Was anyone unsafe because you were going 56 mph rather than 55? No, of course not. 55 was never the point. Nominally, safety was the point. Safety is not about going a single speed. There are days and conditions when 65 is practically as safe as 55. There are days and conditions where 65 may be safer than 55 (e.g., everyone around you is doing it on a multi-lane road, you're safer following along than stubbornly insisting on being 10 mph divergent). There are days and conditions where the safe limit may well be 15, or even 0. That's the real thing we want. But that's not what computers and AI give us. They give us rigid enforcement.

As society develops the capability to enforce laws rigidly, it will need to figure out that rigid enforcement isn't what we ever wanted. The laws were not themselves the end goal.

Unfortunately, this is going to be harder than it should be because this rigid enforcement creates and/or reinforces a power center in the people who will benefit from this rigid enforcement, both monetarily and through the additional power to selectively pardon people for what is de facto a brand new set of crimes, in the sense that the are a whole bunch of convictions that could never have occurred in the past. Modestly clever use of the pardoning process will allow them to hold on to that power for extended periods of time by using it to cover over the worst and most socially costly offenses (see also "Support via working out how to raise enough of a Twitter fuss to get the company's attention"; you can suppress outrage and even look magnanimous by pardoning the things that get into the news while hammering everyone else).

We will, of course, have to learn this the hard way.

Re: AI cameras catch 297 drivers in three days in Cornwall

#42
post #17
post #8

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” ― C. S.…

I wouldn't call "requiring drivers to not be using mobile phones" a "tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims". It's for the good of everyone else on the road, and, in the case of seatbelts, for the good of the rest of society that needs to deal with the burden of caring for unnecessary injuries due to failing to take such a basic precaution.

> the good of the rest of society that needs to deal with the burden of caring for unnecessary injuries

I understand that point of view but I do think it can be tyrannical to not let people live their lives even if they are making decisions that are bad for their physical health. In the US, obesity is a far greater burden on our health care system than people not wearing seatbelts. I still can't get behind fining people for overeating or something like that.

Re: AI cameras catch 297 drivers in three days in Cornwall

#43
post #32

I do understand the privacy arguments, but there are thousands of people are being killed by drivers every day (many of whom aren't even in cars, they're walking or biking). Enforcing traffic laws is one of the only tools for fixing this that can be implemented quickly (as opposed to better urban design and public transit, which are better solutions in many other ways). I feel like their should be room to advocate fo…

In the UK, where this is happening, that's simply not true. There were 1695 road fatalities in 2022 total. That's very different from "thousands a day".

I do not believe it is desirable (or practically possible) to eliminate all risk of death or injury from life, and increasingly orwellian surveillance measures to clamp down on every misdeed and ill advised risk does not, I think, make for a happier or freer society.

Re: AI cameras catch 297 drivers in three days in Cornwall

#44

I'm surprised by the early reactions here. Looking at the picture in the article, of a driver texting while the passenger holds the wheel (!!!), my first reaction is "OH YES PLEASE GET THESE INCREDIBLY IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS ASAP". I don't want to die because some idiot is texting while driving. Whether these idiots are caught by a human looking attentively 24/7 or by a high-speed camera with an AI flag…

People here are concerned for the exact same reason they're concerned about on-device image scanning, they're not pro-pedophilia they're worried about the future uses of this capability.

Fair, but I think we’re ought to be much more concerned by surveillance of private messages on a communication app than we ought to be of surveillance of people’s activities on a public road. It ought to be understood that you might be observed while driving.

Re: AI cameras catch 297 drivers in three days in Cornwall

#45
post #31

It is your civic duty to destroy each and every one of these if you find them out and about. They can't fix them all and will eventually give up. The west cannot become China. There is nowhere else to go.

Or, like, you could just not do things like texting and letting the passenger hold the wheel while you drive while blind people like me have to navigate around your one ton death machines. Crazy idea I know.

I don't do either of these things, ever, and still feel this level of automated surveillance is repugnant.

Re: AI cameras catch 297 drivers in three days in Cornwall

#47

Hopefully this catches up. It's scary how normalized traffic violence and risking other's life is in our society. If there is one place where AI based automatic enforcement could instantly make life better it's traffic laws enforcement. I am looking for the day I can drive at a speed limit and not be a target of aggressive maniacs tailgating and dangerously overataking me or one I can go for a bike ride and not be ga…

What about when you accidentally go 5mph over the speed limit?

Re: AI cameras catch 297 drivers in three days in Cornwall

#48

The most pressing question to me is: Why don't you wear a seat belt? How can humans be that stupid, sparing 1 second of time when entering the car? I really don't understand it.

In my experience it is not generally an issue of laziness, it is more often a statement of ideology.

Re: AI cameras catch 297 drivers in three days in Cornwall

#49
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically a slippery slope argument. Which is not completely unfair, police have a terrible track record when it comes to using technological means responsibly.

Police are using a bunch of technologies irresponsibly. Why not advocate for better oversight of police overall instead of trying to block them from using specific technologies?

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Re: AI cameras catch 297 drivers in three days in Cornwall

#50

I'm surprised by the early reactions here. Looking at the picture in the article, of a driver texting while the passenger holds the wheel (!!!), my first reaction is "OH YES PLEASE GET THESE INCREDIBLY IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS ASAP". I don't want to die because some idiot is texting while driving. Whether these idiots are caught by a human looking attentively 24/7 or by a high-speed camera with an AI flag…

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