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Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

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Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#81

Post by cornel_io »

cornel_io wrote: post #77
djbusby wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good test might include a bunch of domains. And checking the timing on each. Could we demonstrate the delay is on t.co and not on NYT?

I went through my own Twitter feed, and found 10 non-NYT links. All redirected almost immediately through t.co via wget, only lagging on the destination sites. I also tried 5 NYT links. All had a very consistent 5 second delay through wget. I could do more, but I don't care to. Everyone knows Elon has gone redpill, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's "owning the libs", but there also could be a dozen other reasons Twi…

Actually, re: my edit - I think it really is worth considering whether there might be an accidental delay here that's on the NYT side. It's totally possible that Twitter is hitting the sites it redirects people to before it actually sends them there, for either analytics purposes or otherwise, and I'd trust the NYT devops less than Twitter's w.r.t. making sure things were fast.

Incompetence before malice, etc...

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#82

Post by rhaksw »

mutant_glofish wrote: post #55
dang wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that if you publish the lists it leads to more abuses. For example if spammers find out which sites are banned then they just post other ones.

> For example if spammers find out which sites are banned then they just post other ones. I don't think that makes sense. The supposed spammers can just try looking up whether their submissions show up or not when not logged in.

You're correct again. Spammers and bots are the most determined actors, so these secretive measures don't impact them.

In fact, such secrecy benefits spammers. Good-faith users never imagine that platforms would secretly action content. So when you look at overall trends, bots, spammers and trolls are winning while genuine users are being pushed aside.

I argued that secrecy benefits trolls in a blog post, but I don't want to spam links to my posts in the comments.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#83

Post by blowski »

Terr_ wrote: post #62
blowski wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enshitification is different. It’s when companies destroy a product with hundreds of changes that prioritise internal politics above what end users want. This is something else - just the ego of one rich guy petulantly satisfying his inner demons.

"Porque no los dos?" A five-second delay may be enough to cause a measurably increase in the "stickiness" of Twitter if some people wait Then they spend more time generating ad-revenue for Twitter than if they had gone off to the New York Times or something and started browsing over there.

It’s not doing it on foxnews.com. Take everything else Musk is saying and doing, and it’s hard to believe it’s not some grudgelist.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#84

Post by quickthrower2 »

dang wrote: post #20
mutant_glofish wrote: post #18

I think that HN itself also shadow flags submissions from a list of domains it doesn't like. Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see it's flagged unless you log out): - archive.is - watcher.guru - stacker.news - zerohedge.com - freebeacon.com - thefederalist.com - breitbart.com

Well, yes, many sites are banned on HN. Others are penalized (see e.g. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ). None of this is secret, though we don't publish the lists themselves. Edit: about 67k sites are banned on HN. Here's a random selection of 10 of them: vodlockertv.com biggboss.org infoocode.com newyorkpersonalinjuryattorneyblog.com moringajuice.wordpress.com surrogacymumbai.com max…

SEO optimized domains, so 2010 :-)

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#85

Post by altairprime »

rhaksw wrote: post #73
dang wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, many sites are banned on HN. Others are penalized (see e.g. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ). None of this is secret, though we don't publish the lists themselves. Edit: about 67k sites are banned on HN. Here's a random selection of 10 of them: vodlockertv.com biggboss.org infoocode.com newyorkpersonalinjuryattorneyblog.com moringajuice.wordpress.com surrogacymumbai.com max…

It is a secret if the system does not inform the poster it's been penalized.

What is it if the information is freely available, to anyone asking, for a single domain they are trying to post at that time?

It’s not secret, because they’ll be provided an answer if they email the mod team.

It’s not free as in open source, because it isn’t available for anyone to download and study in full.

So, since it’s not secret, is it public, or private? Since it’s not published in full but any query of LIMIT 1 is answered, is that open, closed, or other?

Restrictions to publication don’t necessarily equate to secrecy, but the best I’ve got is “available upon request”, which isn’t quite right either. Suggestions welcome.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#86

Post by xNeil »

chasing wrote: post #58
mutant_glofish wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how was the decision made to ban Federalist, but not say Guardian or The Daily Beast? Do you have any process in place to ensure that your political biases don't influence the list, or you don't care about that?

[flagged]

I came to HN because it seemed to be a place of free dialogue.

> It's certainly under no obligation to promote right-wing propaganda and hate.

It's certainly under no obligation to promote any propaganda or hate. That's what makes the site great. The HN crowd is not your average layman - it's largely well read and educated people. Why not let them decide what is propaganda and what's not (as opposed to some arbitrary authority deciding this)?

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#87

Post by archo »

mutant_glofish wrote: post #18

I think that HN itself also shadow flags submissions from a list of domains it doesn't like. Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see it's flagged unless you log out): - archive.is - watcher.guru - stacker.news - zerohedge.com - freebeacon.com - thefederalist.com - breitbart.com

Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see its flagged unless you log out): - archive.is

I can assure you that is Not the case with HN: on posting archive.is URL's, proof?

Look at my comment postings : https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=archo

Is it possible you have been shadow-banned for poor compliance to the [1]Guidelines & [2]FAQ's?

[1] : https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[2] : https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#88

Post by speedgoose »

rhaksw wrote: post #82
mutant_glofish wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example if spammers find out which sites are banned then they just post other ones. I don't think that makes sense. The supposed spammers can just try looking up whether their submissions show up or not when not logged in.

You're correct again. Spammers and bots are the most determined actors, so these secretive measures don't impact them. In fact, such secrecy benefits spammers. Good-faith users never imagine that platforms would secretly action content. So when you look at overall trends, bots, spammers and trolls are winning while genuine users are being pushed aside. I argued that secrecy benefits trolls in a blog post, but I don't…

Most spammers aren’t that competent. Hiding their posts without telling them used to be very effective on Reddit (now Reddit tells them). I guess it’s the same on HN.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#89

Post by mutant_glofish »

archo wrote: post #87
mutant_glofish wrote: post #18

I think that HN itself also shadow flags submissions from a list of domains it doesn't like. Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see it's flagged unless you log out): - archive.is - watcher.guru - stacker.news - zerohedge.com - freebeacon.com - thefederalist.com - breitbart.com

Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see its flagged unless you log out): - archive.is I can assure you that is Not the case with HN: on posting archive.is URL's, proof? Look at my comment postings : https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=archo Is it possible you have been shadow-banned for poor compliance to the [1]Guidelines & [2]FAQ's? [1] : https://…

> I can assure you that is Not the case with HN: on posting archive.is URL's, proof?

It's not banned in comments, but it is banned in submissions. @dang (HN's moderator) confirms that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37130177

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#90

Post by derefr »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #76
craftkiller wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly enough the delay is reduced to 1 second by using curl's useragent string (wget --user-agent='curl/8.2.1' https://t.co/4fs609qwWt )

Seeing this makes me wonder if it's some sort of server-side header bidding ad server gone haywire, rather than something nefarious. Why would they only delay browser agents otherwise?

Browsers are generally tolerant of long TTFB. Automation, on the other hand, is sometimes quite brittle.
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