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Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

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Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#71

Post by retox »

dehrmann wrote: post #52
1letterunixname wrote: post #11

Most record players don't even play 78's. I had to go out and buy some borderline novelty player to play a few Soviet 78's. The whole point of copyright is it's a limited time monopoly that must end at a reasonable time, at which point works fall into the public domain. The problem is sheet music, music recording, likenesses, photography, and written works all have radically different interpretations of this, or have…

> Most record players don't even play 78's Really? I don't know turntables, but I feel like every DJ wants a Technics one. The first several I looked at on their website play 33 1/3s, 45s, and 78s.

You need a special stylus and perhaps to adjust the tracking force.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#72

Post by InSteady »

jandrese wrote: post #34
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

While I strongly disagree with the length of copyright protection, after reading this and reading more about the case, from a purely legal perspective, I just don't see how IA has any defense. They basically just seem to be saying "these are old records, so we should be able to copy them. Also, our work is mainly for academic researchers." My guess is that they are arguing fair use, but I just don't see how that appl…

Copyright protections are important. Just how many of those artists would have created their works if they knew that decades after their death an average of one researcher of a month might access a digital copy of the work for free ? It completely ruins the incentive structure! Might as well become a fry cook instead.

Thankfully we have record companies acting in good faith to recoup that gulp 400 million in potential lost revenue on behalf of those long-dead artists and their deserving kin.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#73

Post by JakeAl »

JakeAl wrote: post #69
dmbche wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Statement from Brewster Kahle, digital librarian of the Internet Archive: “When people want to listen to music they go to Spotify. When people want to study sound recordings as they were originally created, they go to libraries like the Internet Archive. Both are needed. There shouldn’t be conflict here.”" From the article I believe they are arguing that the intent behind the digitization is fair use, as you say, bu…

They are indeed making copies in the strictest sense, but the real problem is if the copyright holders don't enforce their copyrights in the strictest sense they can forfeit their copyright. For example, if I let the public use an image copyrighted by me long enough without strict guidelines and I try to take someone to court, the court can say yes well you let the horse out of the barn and now you are trying to put…

Just a side note/addendum, I worked with entertainment lawyers A LOT in the early days of the web on copyrighted images and while they start from a rigorous position what one simply has to do is find out what the guidelines are that alleviate any issues. For example, with an image or a video clip it often only requires explicit attribution (so every image at the bottom must carry the legal/copyright line, and likewise with a video clip) to satisfy the lawyers. They almost never tell you that, though. That's a tip for YouTubers who get copystruck for movie clips. Run the copyright/legal line at the bottom of every clip while they are on screen and you are covered 99% of the time. That's why when you watch the news and they show a clip you see the line at the bottom of the clip. They know what the legal requirements are.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#74

Post by [deleted] »

hunter2_ wrote: post #64
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sony, et al. allege that Internet Archive's public redistribution of their digital copies of the records do not fall under the archival exception. Seems pretty obvious to me that, just with respect to the archival exception, that Sony et al is correct here. The issue is not with IA making backup copies of these works - the issue is with making copies and making them available for free over the Internet that is the…

What should the M.O. of an archive be, then? Paid access? That would be an even worse offense! Zero access except for the person who created the archive? That makes no sense either. The archivist needs to vet potential accessors for certain motives? Only offer access to small samples?

[deleted]

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#75

Post by marcus_holmes »

zbowling wrote: post #22

So the conspiracy theorist in me believes they may see this archiving as a threat for their current copyrights. So often modern copyrights holders get their copyrights invalidated when trying to enforce and litigate against others by someone finding an older work that predates the more more recent one. The Happy Birthday song got invalidated by an older work of "Good Morning to All" [1]. Having this database out ther…

It's interesting because it implies that music is finite. Or possibly that commercial music is finite - there's an infinitely long tail of weird shit that we don't want to listen to, but the stuff we do want to listen to is confined to a finite segment of possible music.

If so then eventually all music will be free, because it will be repeating a previous iteration of the same tune.

This also implies that music is discovered, not invented.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#76

Post by ang_cire »

adventured wrote: post #18
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

While I strongly disagree with the length of copyright protection, after reading this and reading more about the case, from a purely legal perspective, I just don't see how IA has any defense. They basically just seem to be saying "these are old records, so we should be able to copy them. Also, our work is mainly for academic researchers." My guess is that they are arguing fair use, but I just don't see how that appl…

[flagged]

Possibly because many of us recognize that the protections under GDPR are about reigning in dangerous corporate data usage, not about allowing people to curate their online image by scrubbing things they've previously made public.

There is a huge gap between "you shouldn't be able to use my data for things I did not consent to in order to commodify me" and, "I should be able to force people to get rid of any info about me that I don't want them to have, even if I made it public".

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#77

Post by 2023throwawayy »

SoftTalker wrote: post #65
dehrmann wrote: post #55

Isn't vinyl the most popular physical medium by sales right now? Sure, 78s aren't as supported, but the first Technics turntable I clicked on can play them, and the Wirecutter has a recommendation that plays them. "Obsolete" is a stretch.

That gave me an idea, I have some old 78s -- could I play them at 45 and then use Audacity to speed them up by 173%?

Yes.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#78

Post by whaleofatw2022 »

JakeAl wrote: post #69
dmbche wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Statement from Brewster Kahle, digital librarian of the Internet Archive: “When people want to listen to music they go to Spotify. When people want to study sound recordings as they were originally created, they go to libraries like the Internet Archive. Both are needed. There shouldn’t be conflict here.”" From the article I believe they are arguing that the intent behind the digitization is fair use, as you say, bu…

They are indeed making copies in the strictest sense, but the real problem is if the copyright holders don't enforce their copyrights in the strictest sense they can forfeit their copyright. For example, if I let the public use an image copyrighted by me long enough without strict guidelines and I try to take someone to court, the court can say yes well you let the horse out of the barn and now you are trying to put…

My understanding is that trademarks require enforcement (i.e. why we can 'xerox' a page) but copyright is more vague and does not require immediate action?

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#79

Post by AnthonyMouse »

dehrmann wrote: post #56
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

While I strongly disagree with the length of copyright protection, after reading this and reading more about the case, from a purely legal perspective, I just don't see how IA has any defense. They basically just seem to be saying "these are old records, so we should be able to copy them. Also, our work is mainly for academic researchers." My guess is that they are arguing fair use, but I just don't see how that appl…

I refuse to donate to them because I see their disregard for copyright as a liability.

Non-profits essentially have to be the ones to push the limits of laws like this, because it's not profitable, so for-profit entities aren't going to do it. But someone has to do it or you can never get a precedent saying that something good is actually allowed.

The problem is the RIAA knows this, because they have expensive lawyers, and they try to avoid proceeding with a suit unless they think their victim has made a mistake. So you have to get close enough to the line to at least make them think that, but then there is the risk that the judge thinks that too. Yet what alternative is there?

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#80

Post by behringer »

JakeAl wrote: post #69
dmbche wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Statement from Brewster Kahle, digital librarian of the Internet Archive: “When people want to listen to music they go to Spotify. When people want to study sound recordings as they were originally created, they go to libraries like the Internet Archive. Both are needed. There shouldn’t be conflict here.”" From the article I believe they are arguing that the intent behind the digitization is fair use, as you say, bu…

They are indeed making copies in the strictest sense, but the real problem is if the copyright holders don't enforce their copyrights in the strictest sense they can forfeit their copyright. For example, if I let the public use an image copyrighted by me long enough without strict guidelines and I try to take someone to court, the court can say yes well you let the horse out of the barn and now you are trying to put…

All sound like great reasons to not license and flout the law.
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