Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

blog.archive.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 199 posts

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#31

Post by ocdtrekkie »

criddell wrote: post #23
1letterunixname wrote: post #11

Most record players don't even play 78's. I had to go out and buy some borderline novelty player to play a few Soviet 78's. The whole point of copyright is it's a limited time monopoly that must end at a reasonable time, at which point works fall into the public domain. The problem is sheet music, music recording, likenesses, photography, and written works all have radically different interpretations of this, or have…

The IA is risking all the work they’ve done so far. If they want to archive copyrighted material, they should do it and sit on it until the copyright expires. If the hope is that the archive is around 1000 years from now, then what’s the rush to release these 78’s right now?

Exactly! This is entirely on the IA for refusing to recognize they don't have the inherent right to violate copyright at their leisure. The reason they will keep getting into this is because they keep insisting they aren't doing anything wrong.

If preservation of unprofitable content is the goal, sit down with the lawyers and hammer out conditions under which the IA can be given permission to preserve content. A good negotiator can probably even get record labels to pay for it if they think they're getting a copyright win.

The IA doesn't respect copyright to a fault and it shows and they're going to keep losing as long as they believe they're entitled to ignore it.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#32

Post by userbinator »

causality0 wrote: post #5

If there's copyrighted material on the Archive you find valuable, download and save it now before it's the target of the next lawsuit. I expect it won't be long before you can't get old magazines or other nostalgic and niche material. This is exactly what we all said would happen when the IA gave a giant "Fuck You!" to copyright holders with the Emergency Library. The era of copyright holders ignoring the IA if they'…

In other words, the archive itself needs archived --- preferably in a highly distributed and fault-tolerant fashion.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#34

Post by jandrese »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

While I strongly disagree with the length of copyright protection, after reading this and reading more about the case, from a purely legal perspective, I just don't see how IA has any defense. They basically just seem to be saying "these are old records, so we should be able to copy them. Also, our work is mainly for academic researchers." My guess is that they are arguing fair use, but I just don't see how that appl…

Copyright protections are important. Just how many of those artists would have created their works if they knew that decades after their death an average of one researcher of a month might access a digital copy of the work for free? It completely ruins the incentive structure! Might as well become a fry cook instead.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#35

Post by boomboomsubban »

Dalewyn wrote: post #26
causality0 wrote: post #5

If there's copyrighted material on the Archive you find valuable, download and save it now before it's the target of the next lawsuit. I expect it won't be long before you can't get old magazines or other nostalgic and niche material. This is exactly what we all said would happen when the IA gave a giant "Fuck You!" to copyright holders with the Emergency Library. The era of copyright holders ignoring the IA if they'…

>I expect it won't be long before you can't get old magazines or other nostalgic and niche material. I will point out that the Internet Archive is among the foremost source of warez[1] today. Being brutally honest, what Internet Archive is doing these days isn't archiving or academic fair use anymore. They are flagrantly violating copyright, or enabling violations of copyright, and that is straight up not okay. As an…

Like the rest of the internet, it is not the IA's job to verify content users post isn't a copyright violation.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#36

Post by Dalewyn »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #29

I really want to know if the record labels tried a DMCA takedown request. Normally IA follows those, I can't determine if one was sent and the IA ignored for some reason or if the record labels purposely chose a different manner of attack. One of the stories mentioned something about an ignored cease and desist, but that seems like a separate thing.

A PDF of the lawsuit was provided by Torrentfreak, linked below[1].

In it, Sony, et al. state on pages 13 and 14 that Internet Archive failed to take necessary actions and file required paperwork with the US Copyright Office as required under the Music Modernization Act.

The DMCA is never mentioned in the suit, so I presume no DMCA takedown requests were sent.

[1]: https://torrentfreak.com/images/1-23-cv-07133-UMG-et-al-v.-I...

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#38

Post by boomboomsubban »

Dalewyn wrote: post #36
boomboomsubban wrote: post #29

I really want to know if the record labels tried a DMCA takedown request. Normally IA follows those, I can't determine if one was sent and the IA ignored for some reason or if the record labels purposely chose a different manner of attack. One of the stories mentioned something about an ignored cease and desist, but that seems like a separate thing.

A PDF of the lawsuit was provided by Torrentfreak, linked below[1]. In it, Sony, et al. state on pages 13 and 14 that Internet Archive failed to take necessary actions and file required paperwork with the US Copyright Office as required under the Music Modernization Act. The DMCA is never mentioned in the suit, so I presume no DMCA takedown requests were sent. [1]: https://torrentfreak.com/images/1-23-cv-07133-UMG-et…

Thanks. Then to me, this lawsuit is primarily about attacking the IA. If they were actually concerned about their songs being pirated, they would try the easy way known to work.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#39

Post by [deleted] »

adventured wrote: post #18
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

While I strongly disagree with the length of copyright protection, after reading this and reading more about the case, from a purely legal perspective, I just don't see how IA has any defense. They basically just seem to be saying "these are old records, so we should be able to copy them. Also, our work is mainly for academic researchers." My guess is that they are arguing fair use, but I just don't see how that appl…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#40

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

throwayay583739 wrote: post #9
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

While I strongly disagree with the length of copyright protection, after reading this and reading more about the case, from a purely legal perspective, I just don't see how IA has any defense. They basically just seem to be saying "these are old records, so we should be able to copy them. Also, our work is mainly for academic researchers." My guess is that they are arguing fair use, but I just don't see how that appl…

This is a little meta but: it's great how you predicted a possible unproductive line of discussion that might result from your question and headed it off with a clarification. Props for communications skills. I'm also a little sad that this disclaimer is even needed. I think it says something about how the character of HN has changed in the last ten years--there's no longer an assumption that the people on the other…

Thanks for that. I tried, yet still there are comment responses that literally do the exact thing I think is so annoying: complain sarcastically that copyright is stupid because it obviously isn't incentivizing the original artists here. No shit, we know.

But whatever, those comments get pushed to the bottom, and I thought the top responses were really helpful (I didn't previously know about the details of the fair use tests).

Post reply on HN