Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The anesthetic effect of air at atmospheric pressure

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 205 posts

Re: The anesthetic effect of air at atmospheric pressure

#111

Post by genewitch »

gamblor956 wrote: post #104
genewitch wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sugar is a grass, or corn syrup, which is from a grass... edit: also opiate and opioid are different, i'm talking about the brain chemical, not the drug.

If you're going to say something silly like sugar is a grass it's clear you don't know what you're talking about and I'm going to leave this conversation. Most sugar in the U.S. is made from beets, which are not a grass. Also...dark chocolate, soy, spinach, fruit, meat, and coffee are opiate triggers, so if sugar is bad because it triggers an opiate response, so is most of the human diet. It turns out the bodies resp…

>Sugar cane production Sugar cane is a grass native to Asia and grows mostly in tropical and subtropical areas. In terms of the U.S. sugar cane production by state, it is mainly concentrated in the federal states of Florida, Louisiana, Texas and Hawaii. In 2021, Florida produced around 17.3 million tons of sugar cane and was expected to produce nearly the same quantity the following year. During this period, Florida accounted for more than half of the country’s total sugar cane production. Some nine hundred thousand acres of sugar cane are harvested yearly in the United States, generating over one billion U.S. dollars in annual revenues.

> Since the mid-2000s, sugarcane has accounted for between 40 and 45 percent of the total sugar produced domestically, and sugarbeets accounted for between 55 and 60 percent of production.

Sugar cane is a grass, and when i make a cake i use wheat flour and cane sugar.

I also know about sugar beets, but i specifically said "grasses". Saying that corn and sugar and wheat aren't grasses is hilarious. It doesn't matter what part we eat, as it's the gut flora that process it into the opioids, and they can't tell grass from the thing grass comes from.

Fukudome S.-I., Yoshikawa M. Opioid peptides derived from wheat gluten: Their isolation and characterization. Febs Lett. 1992;296:107–111. doi: 10.1016/0014-5793(92)80414-C. for example

Re: The anesthetic effect of air at atmospheric pressure

#112

Post by nullc »

genewitch wrote: post #62
jerf wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We’re basically continuously narked, we’re just so used to it we don’t even know." Just because one direction on the gradient means that we respond in a way that looks like a narcotic does not mean that the other direction will respond in the opposite manner. I'm sure the nootropics folks would have discovered being super not high by now if it were as easy as breathing a mixture that doesn't have nitrogen in it.

as siblings commented, pure oxygen gets you high. a couple of breaths of pure oxygen will relieve pain and induce euphoria. I am not entirely clear on the definition of "narcotic" so i may be being redundant. My issue, though, is i can't find a way to safely generate oxygen for a decent price. I know electrolysis works, but these atomic sieves look safer. They're also difficult to acquire without a prescription, at l…

> pure oxygen gets you high. a couple of breaths of pure oxygen will relieve pain and induce euphoria

That is certainly not my experience.

Re: The anesthetic effect of air at atmospheric pressure

#113

Post by naikrovek »

slau wrote: post #5

Just completed my deep (40m/120ft) diver certification. A significant amount of the course was focused on nitrogen narcosis, and how to handle/detect it. Apparently, some divers will start feeling the narcotic effect between 20-30m. Beyond 30m, a significant amount of divers can feel the effects. Beyond 40m is the realm of tech diving, with trimix (helium/nitrogen/oxygen) or even heliox (helium/oxygen). I know nothin…

are you using "nark" correctly? I've always thought that meant annoyed.

Re: The anesthetic effect of air at atmospheric pressure

#114

Post by naikrovek »

jerf wrote: post #50
slau wrote: post #5

Just completed my deep (40m/120ft) diver certification. A significant amount of the course was focused on nitrogen narcosis, and how to handle/detect it. Apparently, some divers will start feeling the narcotic effect between 20-30m. Beyond 30m, a significant amount of divers can feel the effects. Beyond 40m is the realm of tech diving, with trimix (helium/nitrogen/oxygen) or even heliox (helium/oxygen). I know nothin…

"We’re basically continuously narked, we’re just so used to it we don’t even know." Just because one direction on the gradient means that we respond in a way that looks like a narcotic does not mean that the other direction will respond in the opposite manner. I'm sure the nootropics folks would have discovered being super not high by now if it were as easy as breathing a mixture that doesn't have nitrogen in it.

> Just because one direction on the gradient means that we respond in a way that looks like a narcotic does not mean that the other direction will respond in the opposite manner.

that's literally what this study is about! this study is about how replacing nitrogen with helium decreased reaction time in human participants by over 9%.

Re: The anesthetic effect of air at atmospheric pressure

#116

Post by yummypaint »

vl wrote: post #109
genewitch wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as siblings commented, pure oxygen gets you high. a couple of breaths of pure oxygen will relieve pain and induce euphoria. I am not entirely clear on the definition of "narcotic" so i may be being redundant. My issue, though, is i can't find a way to safely generate oxygen for a decent price. I know electrolysis works, but these atomic sieves look safer. They're also difficult to acquire without a prescription, at l…

> My issue, though, is i can't find a way to safely generate oxygen for a decent price. Depends on the definition of generate and decent price , but you can buy stationary medical oxygen concentrator for $1000, portable for $3000. If you want something easier you can buy pre-filled bottles or refill existing bottles at industrial gas supply places. If you want more, you can get a concentrator setup which small privat…

I know a guy with a glassblowing shop who gets all his oxygen from old medical concentrators he refurbishes

Re: The anesthetic effect of air at atmospheric pressure

#117

Post by asdgioanionio »

vondur wrote: post #65
jaggederest wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grog was at least 10% alcohol, plus lime juice. Navy rum was 65% or 130 proof. That's more than enough to inhibit most waterborne diseases such as cholera (inhibited in wine at 6.25% abv, though wine has tannins and phenols).

Yikes, I just checked, and Captain Morgan's is 35% Alcohol. I'm aware of Bacardi 151 (75.5% alcohol) which is like fire water to me. Can't imagine drinking something so concentrated regularly.

You can't judge from Bacardi. It's bottom-shelf, young, and pretty rough. I find it unpleasant to drink neat even at 80 proof. A high-quality, aged rum at 130 proof will be plenty fiery, but not as bad as Bacardi 151 diluted to 130 proof.

Of course, the sailors probably didn't drink anything terribly high-end.

Re: The anesthetic effect of air at atmospheric pressure

#118

Post by genewitch »

vl wrote: post #109
genewitch wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as siblings commented, pure oxygen gets you high. a couple of breaths of pure oxygen will relieve pain and induce euphoria. I am not entirely clear on the definition of "narcotic" so i may be being redundant. My issue, though, is i can't find a way to safely generate oxygen for a decent price. I know electrolysis works, but these atomic sieves look safer. They're also difficult to acquire without a prescription, at l…

> My issue, though, is i can't find a way to safely generate oxygen for a decent price. Depends on the definition of generate and decent price , but you can buy stationary medical oxygen concentrator for $1000, portable for $3000. If you want something easier you can buy pre-filled bottles or refill existing bottles at industrial gas supply places. If you want more, you can get a concentrator setup which small privat…

$1000-$3000 isn't decent for my use case; basically i want to use oxygen instead of ibuprofen for minor aches, coupled with heat or cooling. I find that pure oxygen does wonders for minor headaches and neck pain that i experience. $15-$25 a liter for oxygen is also not a decent price, relatively.

At one point i found some concentrators that were ~$500, sadly i did not order and the brand name was alphabet soup; good luck finding that again!

Re: The anesthetic effect of air at atmospheric pressure

#120

Post by superkuh »

killjoywashere wrote: post #90
superkuh wrote: post #3

The action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer. Normally the lipid bilayer is in a liquid phase but the the switching out of monovalent sodium for bivalent calcium ions changes the number of phospholipid carboxyl head groups each ion is electrostatically associated with. This changes the heat capacity and causes the lipid membrane to become a solid/gel phase…

Yeah, physician (pathologist, specifcally) with a degree in physics here. I'm going through articles in other tabs right now just because I'm skeptical enough to consider crazy ideas (always good to build bulwarks), this is, at best hypothetical, but mainly the chain of causality in the above statements is a hot mess. I spend a lot of time looking at cell membranes. More than almost all of humanity. The naive Fluid M…

Yes, this is a contested theory, but it's not a crackpot theory. I'm well aware of the fluid mosaic model. It is not mutually exclusive with what I've described, in fact it's the base from which this theory is formed. And it is not my theory, but the theory first formulated by literally the guy that discovered the mechanism of action of myelinated action potentials (Ichiji Tasaki, who worked on it during his entire time at the NIH). Call it crackpot if you want but please don't do so just because you've misinterpreted a a short forum post trying to introduce a complex concept in a concise way.

To clear it up for you, the transfer of ions across the membrane by ion channels is not something I'm debating. Nor am I saying that the electrical field isn't required for the action potential to propagate. If you took that away from my post I can understand you thinking it's crackpottery. I'm just saying it's not the whole picture. When there's lots of light gas anesthetic dissolved in the lipid membrane keeping the heat capacity low (disordered) it is thermodynamically harder (requires more energy) to form the organized 'solid' (actually more like a gel to be pedantic) state that propagates with/as the action potential.

All these things are happening together, and more (like, how the lateral pressure profile might link the lipid state to ion channel conformational changes, etc). Simple electrical models cannot explain reversible uptake and release of heat (resistance cannot do this) with the passing of the action potential. Nor the reason atmospheric pressure changes dosage, nor the reason there's a change in optical birefringence and scattering. So you know what it describes is not the full picture. But don't take my word for it, go read Tasaki or Heimburg's work on this if you want to understand the detail. http://erewhon.superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Lipid%20Mem...

Post reply on HN