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Render nuked my entire account with no notice

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Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#111

Post by quickthrower2 »

andybak wrote: post #84
quickthrower2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just stop using these kinds of funky PaaS services. Use a boring host with a good track record who is not trying to make a VC rich. For other stuff use startups but for production hosting that you livelyhood depends on don’t.

Services that are "trying to make a VC rich" are a double-edged sword. They are prone to "moving fast and breaking things", sudden business model pivots and dramatic pricing changes. On the other hand, they are often heavily subsided by aforementioned VCs in the name of building momentum. So if you use them cautiously with all this in mind, you can often treat it as an informal piece of redistributative taxation.

Yes. Certainly. But it depends if the savings make it worth the extra hassle. The venn diagram must have a small overlap.

The other consideration is DX where these startup infras shine. They make it easy to deploy and that can be tempting. But I am not convinced it is that much easier. Learn the slightest amount of devops (a weekend) and you can script what they did for your usecase. Use github actions or whatever but not too much! Just get that to call a bash script that does what you want.

I think there is a lot of value of trying to keep off locked in paths. But it is a delicate path to tread. And for startups growth is everything. But a few seconds of thought into tech choices and not just jumping into every freemium shiny tech is probably a good idea.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#112

Post by figassis »

I understand the value of all the PaaS and SaaS, but I could never get 100% behind them, even when they started. The highest I ever went was DigitalOcean (so IaaS). I tried some layers on top, lime serverpilot (automated php hosting on your DO droplets), but the entire thing always felt too risky, like giving the keys to your kingdom so someone whose pricing, policies and features you had no control over. I decided to always stay on a layer that is so commoditized that behavior (business, pricing, features, failure modes) is basically uniform across providers. I am atrações to killer pricing and stay away from killer (read lock-in) features. If I need a platform, I setup an open source one, like kubernetes, coolify, etc.

This would have been fine if these startups grew on the merits (like DO). But they want to run infrastructure like they run a social network. No.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#114

Post by satvikpendem »

dgiol wrote: post #93
satvikpendem wrote: post #19

Sorry to hear that. For a rock solid alternative, I use Hetzner with Coolify ( https://coolify.io ) installed, it's an open source Heroku alternative that uses Docker. I deploy all my apps on a 10 dollar Hetzner VPS that can handle millions of hits, and that 10 dollars gets you a much beefier machine than anything you'd get on other paid services like Render, Railway, Fly etc. They just aren't worth using in my exper…

I love Coolify for personal projects, but it's not ready for production/business projects yet. You can't really compare it with Render, Railway or Fly. Some reasons why I wouldn't use it for critical infrastructure: - It doesn't have high availability options (if a server goes goes down, your service goes down) - It doesn't handle backups It is great for excellent for anything non critical though

That's true, I don't run very important apps on there but even still, I can create backups myself and create multiple Coolify instances behind a reverse proxy if needed. It would be useful to have everything in one service though.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#115

Post by thenickdude »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #78
thenickdude wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hetzner deleted my dedicated server a couple of days after signup, and banned my account. A friend had the same experience. At least I didn't get charged anything for it (IIRC billing happens at the end-of-month). I even went through their live-video face verification and passport scan and they didn't budge on this.

Did you mine CHIA on their servers?

No lol, I installed Proxmox on there because I needed a server with AVX2 support for software testing.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#116

Post by devjab »

moonchrome wrote: post #38
devjab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hetzner is quickly positioning itself to be the Azure/AWS replacement for a lot of shops here in the EU.

Do they even offer managed database services ? If you don't even have rudimentary stuff like message broker/database you're not an AWS/Azure alternative.

In my experience in non-SWE related enterprise this isn't really an issue. To put it as bluntly as possible, most EU organisations don't have enough work to staff an team for their IT operations. Maybe you could have one or two people on staff, but that is realistically too few people to run reliable operations, even in Azure or AWS. So what happens is that we outsource all the parts that aren't directly related to development or IT support and operations to 3rd party companies.

Most of those 3rd party companies will happily sell you managed database service that are run on Hetzner. So this part of it is sort of a non-issue for a lot of organisations if the cost are low enough.

Heck, even if you have your own inhouse operations department going for you, why wouldn't you be able to run your own stuff on Hetzner? That's what people did in the transition from having your iron in the basement and buying it from Microsoft/Amazon. The only reason we left the "own cloud" options was cost, and if Azure exceeds the alternative. Or the EU makes it too cumbersome to use Azure, then there won't be much of a reason to stay.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#117

Post by aendruk »

Justsignedup wrote: post #25

I feel like this is a message for the render support team, not hn. Idk why people are going here first as if that's the shortcut to getting a response. Hit up here if render told you to stick it. But I also often see these end up with "I fucked up but want to yell at someone"

> I just wanted to provide a warning to others

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#119

Post by mcherm »

krger wrote: post #90
mcherm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have long had an idea that the best way to handle this is a community supported prioritization service. In other words, a community (hacker news, some subreddit, or perhaps an independent site) would invite people to post problems that ought to be easily solved by customer support except that the company is failing at customer support. Because problems tend to repeat themselves, the people who spend time on this fo…

> The remaining cases could be ranked by the community according to how egregious they were. It’s bad enough companies started outsourcing deciding which features to implement. I don’t want them also outsourcing deciding which cases to support.

I think it would be better to outsource it than to simply NOT fix anything for any customers OR only fixing issues for customers who manage to get a lot of attention on Hacker News.
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