US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago • Hacker News Board

Re: US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago

#131

Post by scarface_74 » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

qbasic_forever wrote: post #38

gruez wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>IMHO vehicles are huge drivers of debt. There are almost no cars under $30k now, and the average sale price of new cars is pushing up near $50k. This is for bog standard stuff like Hondas and Fords, not luxury cars. I went on toyota.com and a base level corolla is only selling for $22,795. This includes a "Delivery, Processing & Handling" charge of $1,095. If for whatever reason you think that driving a compact car…

Goooooooood luck driving off a dealer lot with a $22k Toyota! Seriously, if you can do it then good on you! But back in the real world the on the lot availability of cars is abysmal and most makes are sold out for months of backlog. Like if you want a Toyota minivan it's something like a 2 year wait--unless you are willing to buy one on the lot with a $10k dealer markup.

Then don’t buy a new car? Buy used.

Re: US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago

#132

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

rhyme-boss wrote: post #60

tmountain wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments are afraid of deflation (prices going down) because consumers can go into a holding pattern (stopping spending while waiting for prices to continue to decrease) which can cause the economy to stall out.

Prices drop and people spend less? That's silly.

[deleted]

Re: US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago

#133

Post by JumpCrisscross » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

candiddevmike wrote: post #4

As a parent with kids, I really don't know how folks are getting by with the prices of everything. I know folks who keep eating out, buying new vehicles, and even building new houses and I'm left scratching my head wondering how they afford all of this. I'm not saving nearly as much as I was years ago and I think my "lifestyle" has decreased post COVID (few vacations, eating out is a treat, gifts are for birthdays/ho…

> I really don't know how folks are getting by with the prices of everything

There is a lot of regional variation in production [1] and income [2][3]. On the whole, real disposable income and savings rates are up [4].

But someone in the midwest (income up, annualized, 7 to 11% Q4 '22 to Q1 '23) or Florida (7.9%) is seeing a very different economic landscape than someone in California (0.7%) or Indiana (-1%) [5].

[1] https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/gross-domestic-product-state-a...

[2] https://www.bea.gov/system/files/rpp1222b_0.png

[3] https://www.bea.gov/data/income-saving/personal-income-count...

[4] https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/personal-income-and-outlays-ju...

[5] https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/gross-domestic-product-state-a...

Re: US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago

#134

Post by mjn » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

candiddevmike wrote: post #84

throwaway2203 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yup, with daycare costs we're technically top 10% and still kinda hand to mouth in a MCOL area.

I think the concept of cost of living areas is out the window. Mortgage and rent may be relatively COL dependent (kinda, but everyone is incentived to even it out nationwide), but for everything else I actually think the competition within big cities/"HCOL areas" drives down prices. In my "LCOL" flyover area I'm seeing $30+ pizza and $18 burgers, along with $10 beers at bars. It's insane.

That matches my experience. Of places I've spent significant time in the past year, the one with the most reasonably priced food for eating out is NYC, of all places. It has very expensive places too, of course, but a lot more sub-$10 options than anywhere else I've been recently. There are even a few 99-cent pizza slice places still in business (not as many as 10 years ago, but they exist, and $2-3/slice places are abundant).

Re: US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago

#135

Post by scarface_74 » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

qbasic_forever wrote: post #88

gruez wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, it's actually available for $22k. You just get it right now . That seems... fine? I guess it sucks for the people who need a new car in the past 2 years, but given that the average age of cars on the road is around 12 years, that's a small fraction of people. It certainly doesn't support the original claim that $30k cars are the reason why people getting in debt.

I don't think you understand how new cars are sold in the US. You can't click buttons and order the car from the website, you have to work with a dealer and convince them it's worth their time to order a car for you. I got some bad news, there is no dealership that thinks a $22k Corolla is worth their time when dozens of other buyers are willing to spend $30-40k or more for other models. The higher the price out the…

Not if you buy used…

Re: US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago

#136

Post by throwaway6734 » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

silisili wrote: post #10

candiddevmike wrote: post #4

As a parent with kids, I really don't know how folks are getting by with the prices of everything. I know folks who keep eating out, buying new vehicles, and even building new houses and I'm left scratching my head wondering how they afford all of this. I'm not saving nearly as much as I was years ago and I think my "lifestyle" has decreased post COVID (few vacations, eating out is a treat, gifts are for birthdays/ho…

Same. I make decent money and used to save thousands per month. Now I'm lucky to stash away high hundreds a month, but any expense like new brakes wipes that out. I wonder how in the world everyone else is getting by. Maybe we're all just smiling and pretending here...

How? Where is all of your money going?

Re: US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago

#137

Post by wonderwonder » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

xenospn wrote: post #21

silisili wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I make decent money and used to save thousands per month. Now I'm lucky to stash away high hundreds a month, but any expense like new brakes wipes that out. I wonder how in the world everyone else is getting by. Maybe we're all just smiling and pretending here...

I live alone and just realized I’ve been spending $1300/month this year on groceries. For one person.

I spend about $2,200 on a family of 4 and I really don't budget or plan meals very well at all so I think this is probably a choices thing on your part. If I did it properly I could probably get away with $1,500 a month. Not a critique though, if you have the money and that's what you want to spend, more power to you.

Re: US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago

#138

Post by gruez » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

qbasic_forever wrote: post #88

gruez wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, it's actually available for $22k. You just get it right now . That seems... fine? I guess it sucks for the people who need a new car in the past 2 years, but given that the average age of cars on the road is around 12 years, that's a small fraction of people. It certainly doesn't support the original claim that $30k cars are the reason why people getting in debt.

I don't think you understand how new cars are sold in the US. You can't click buttons and order the car from the website, you have to work with a dealer and convince them it's worth their time to order a car for you. I got some bad news, there is no dealership that thinks a $22k Corolla is worth their time when dozens of other buyers are willing to spend $30-40k or more for other models. The higher the price out the…

> You can't click buttons and order the car from the website, you have to work with a dealer and convince them it's worth their time to order a car for you.

I'm well aware. It's just that toyota.com is an online resource that's easy to find and and verify. Sure, dealer pricing is more "accurate", but it requires much more legwork on my part and even then it turns the whole thread into an anecdote-fest with people saying "well the dealers in my area are charging $9000 market price adjustment (or whatever) so you're wrong!" or "I called around a few dealerships and found one that gave me a $2000 discount!". Doing a quick search on reddit for "dealer markups" in the past 6 months turns up plenty of anecdotes of people being able to secure cars with no or very little dealer markups.

Re: US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago

#139

Post by adventured » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

qbasic_forever wrote: post #16

candiddevmike wrote: post #4

As a parent with kids, I really don't know how folks are getting by with the prices of everything. I know folks who keep eating out, buying new vehicles, and even building new houses and I'm left scratching my head wondering how they afford all of this. I'm not saving nearly as much as I was years ago and I think my "lifestyle" has decreased post COVID (few vacations, eating out is a treat, gifts are for birthdays/ho…

There is a _LOT_ of debt being added, household debt is up to something like 17 trillion dollars from like under 10 trillion pre pandemic. IMHO vehicles are huge drivers of debt. There are almost no cars under $30k now, and the average sale price of new cars is pushing up near $50k. This is for bog standard stuff like Hondas and Fords, not luxury cars. Used cars are incredibly expensive too. People are financing cars…

> There is a _LOT_ of debt being added, household debt is up to something like 17 trillion dollars from like under 10 trillion pre pandemic

Consumer debt service payments as a percent of disposable personal income - is at 5.6%. In 2016 it was around 5.5%-5.6% - despite far lower interest rates. The same figure was 5.6-6% in the 1995-2000 years.

Household debt service payments as a percent of disposable personal income - at 9-10% this year is at one of the lowest levels in 43 years. That figure was over 11% in the 1995-2000 years.

The ratio of household debt to gdp is around 0.73%. That's lower than 2011-2019 years.

US households are in fact in decent condition, despite a loud minority of people proclaiming the end of the world. The facts do not support the dire claims.

Household assets in Q1 2023: $168 trillion. Liabilities: $19.6 trillion. $149t net worth.

Household assets in Q1 2016: $106 trillion. Liabilities: $14.5 trillion. $91t net worth.

In seven years US households added $62 trillion in assets against $5.1 trillion in liabilities.

The US has gotten dramatically wealthier in the past seven years. That's how people are affording everything.

US gdp per capita is $80,000 (with ~337 million people). That's nearly France + Britain combined. There is a vast underestimation of how much income the US has and how rich the US is.

The US median household has a higher net worth than either Sweden or Germany. And the US household income and disposable income figures are typically among the highest in the world.

Re: US inflation means families are spending $709 more per month than two years ago

#140

Post by jliptzin » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

phone8675309 wrote: post #124

jliptzin wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re supposed to be getting raises to keep up with inflation. Inflation means rising cost of everything, including your labor. What is your source of a fixed income? Even social security has cost of living adjustments. If it’s an annuity, you can get annuities that vary based on changes to the CPI. If you put a lot of money into a fixed annuity years ago, you did not properly hedge interest rate/inflation risk.

What you call "not getting a raise" is what companies called "getting a discount on labor"

Which is why laborers need to demand a higher wage to keep up with higher COL, like every other supplier in the economy would.