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Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

#81

Post by deely3 »

ghusto wrote: post #66
julianeon wrote: post #64

The problem with this type of article is that Jobs and Gates have no real world limitations whatsoever. They can do anything with their kids and it won't matter. So that's not relatable to me as a person not in that position. Example: pretend Gates & Jobs decided to remove their kids from school and teach them full time to be musicians. Completely impractical for me and would not set my kids up for success financiall…

I don't have unlimited resources. I work to keep my family afloat. I don't let my kids be on the iPad so I can get on with work. It's not a practical solution, it's an _easy_ solution. I'm sorry the article makes you feel like a bad parent, but don't go into denial mode to make yourself feel better about what you're doing.

You have absolutely no idea about family situation or financial situation or where parent commenter live (and in which circumstances), yet you indirectly call she/him bad parent and accuse she/him of denial.

And yet looks like you 100% sure that you solution of blocking access to iPads is the best solution for kids.

By the way, by blocking access to iPad, in your opinion, what exactly you achieved?

Re: Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

#82

Post by antran22 »

flskafdslaf wrote: post #57
antran22 wrote: post #31

IMHO, the key thing that we need to do is to teach our kids how to create "things" instead of just "consuming". This is important no matter which era you are in, but the average 15th century kid didn't have that many stuffs laying around for him to just consume. This problem is suddenly in our face now and we are scrambling around to try and keep our children away from the cacophony of information, but the better thi…

Tablets and smartphones are designed at every level to be devices for consuming (or being consumed by?) content. And if you do want to create things, they are terrible tools for that.

Even if it is a terrible tool for my purpose, I'd still want my kids to try (under my supervision) and find out the correct way to use it. Then they will be able to judge for themselves the pitfall of those tools.

But yeah, my kid will not have a smartphone/tablet until they are at least 12. It's going to be pen and paper first, then a potato computer (gotta be Linux, they can try installing Wine to play games I guess)

I have a favorite comparison between learning how to use technical devices and learning how to use woodworking tools. You have to start out with the hammer, the chisel, the handsaw for small things first. And then learn to use the lathe, the drill, the bandsaw. Jumping straight to the big tool give you the big risk of losing a few fingers.

Re: Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

#83

Post by antran22 »

amelius wrote: post #52
antran22 wrote: post #31

IMHO, the key thing that we need to do is to teach our kids how to create "things" instead of just "consuming". This is important no matter which era you are in, but the average 15th century kid didn't have that many stuffs laying around for him to just consume. This problem is suddenly in our face now and we are scrambling around to try and keep our children away from the cacophony of information, but the better thi…

> IMHO, the key thing that we need to do is to teach our kids how to create "things" instead of just "consuming". This is important no matter which era you are in You say it as if kids prefer reading books over building with LEGOs :)

I mean, that's a very specific example of looking at it. But let me try and rationalize it:

- Books are not purely consumption. Rather, working through a good book is a very good creative exercise, because you are "creating" critical thinking for yourself. You still have to filter the intake of book for your kids, but imo there are very few books that have no value at all, because producing a book is costly to just put out junks on a massive scale.

- On the contrary, we have to agree that nowadays there are things that give your kids unbounded consumption. Very little critical thinking can be had after 2 hours of viewing mindless Youtube video. If you restrict your kids to only good content that provoke thinking, it's alright, but there is just too much crap on Youtube that lulls them to be mindless.

So, our kids are "consuming" at record high rate and "producing" at record low rate.

Re: Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

#84

Post by number6 »

hluska wrote: post #60
antran22 wrote: post #31

IMHO, the key thing that we need to do is to teach our kids how to create "things" instead of just "consuming". This is important no matter which era you are in, but the average 15th century kid didn't have that many stuffs laying around for him to just consume. This problem is suddenly in our face now and we are scrambling around to try and keep our children away from the cacophony of information, but the better thi…

Great advice! My seven year old went from doing animations with Scratch to drawing flip books. Now when she consumes media m, it’s usually about getting better at animation. Needless to say, everyone who knows me in person sees clips of all her animations. And for some reason, it seems like they avoid me…:)

Are there clips online? There could be an even broader audience

Re: Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

#85

Post by number6 »

orwin wrote: post #76

My computers launch without XSession. And I have all the documentation about how to launch a basic X server on root. My SO found how to use my computer by 'spying' on me (it was more of a game tbh), and hopefully my future kid will too.

Nice. Greeters are overrated

Re: Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

#86

Post by flskafdslaf »

antran22 wrote: post #82
flskafdslaf wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tablets and smartphones are designed at every level to be devices for consuming (or being consumed by?) content. And if you do want to create things, they are terrible tools for that.

Even if it is a terrible tool for my purpose, I'd still want my kids to try (under my supervision) and find out the correct way to use it. Then they will be able to judge for themselves the pitfall of those tools. But yeah, my kid will not have a smartphone/tablet until they are at least 12. It's going to be pen and paper first, then a potato computer (gotta be Linux, they can try installing Wine to play games I gues…

I commend your caution, but if an adult with full faculties available to them has determined that smartphones and tablets have too many risks and downsides to be an effective tool, then what chance does a child have?

Also - why the pre-determined sequence of tech tools for your kid? I have found a much more valuable approach in general to tool selection is to first identify a problem or project, and then apply the appropriate tools. Learning tech for tech's sake to me indicates that we have become ensnared by our own tools and devices.

Re: Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

#87

Post by tizzy »

The only trouble I have with all of this is that I became who I am by being obsessed with my computer. I’m fairly confident many people on this site would not have become software engineers if not for playing hours of counter strike for mouse skills, mmos for touch typing and editing files and installing scripts.

The computer (and the internet) is different now, but the new things are additions. We definitely can nurture the same wanderlust we had growing up. I’m getting more and more convinced the solution is to ban all short form content.

Re: Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

#88

Post by jstarfish »

jimmytucson wrote: post #4

The part I struggle with is, how do I let my kids program and be creative on the computer without being online when daddy can’t program without an internet connection? How will they develop “street smarts” about being on social media without a social media account? How do I let them have the same positive experiences I had playing games without having the deeply negative ones too (I lost that breastplate that took we…

> How will they develop “street smarts” about being on social media without a social media account?

"Don't trust strangers; they only want to humiliate, rape, or kill you" works well enough. Same as reality, the problem with social media is the people.

The "street smarts" kids have picked up from social media access is nothing to celebrate. /r/runaway is a very sordid place encouraging kids to hook up with total strangers. Rate of teen suicide has only increased since the invention of social media. Kids are exchanging scamming tactics and teaching each other how to maintain eating disorders covertly and fake illnesses convincingly enough to fool doctors.

Give them a book and a Python interpreter. Plenty of us got started that way, and some of us still have to work that way-- in SCIFs or other air-gapped environments with no internet access.

> How do I let them have the same positive experiences I had playing games without having the deeply negative ones too (I lost that breastplate that took weeks of grinding to get because the Bloodwood forest swallowed my corpse).

What does this have to do with the internet?

Everyone has lost local saves due to bugs, power outage or corrupted media. "Save early and save often" was a lesson taught by a creepy middle-aged guy named Larry Laffer, using entirely-offline software bearing his name.

Re: Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

#89

Post by GhettoGPT »

benreesman wrote: post #13

I started working on social media in 2006. I did it for a big name for most of the 2010s. It can be a good thing, it’s easier to make it a good thing. It’s expensive as hell to make a screen more destructive than narcotics, you need PhDs and server farms and shit for that. The problem is that software companies aren’t “allowed to mature”. Sometimes you tap out the market, you aren’t doing 20% next year without pushin…

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Re: Jobs and Gates banned their kids from iPads and other devices they created

#90

Post by GhettoGPT »

benreesman wrote: post #13

I started working on social media in 2006. I did it for a big name for most of the 2010s. It can be a good thing, it’s easier to make it a good thing. It’s expensive as hell to make a screen more destructive than narcotics, you need PhDs and server farms and shit for that. The problem is that software companies aren’t “allowed to mature”. Sometimes you tap out the market, you aren’t doing 20% next year without pushin…

[dead]
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