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How a startup loses its spark

blog.johnqian.com

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Re: How a startup loses its spark

#151

Post by samhuk »

extr wrote: post #149
samhuk wrote: post #54

I'll raise your spark for complete destruction. Here's an incomplete list that I keep around of the mechanisms that I've observed so far that have played a big part in the decline/destruction of an engineering team (and product thereof): 1. Too-technical leaders: As startup scales, there can sometimes be a mad dash to fill new leadership roles (e.g. VP of Eng, Arch, CTO, etc.). Super-star engineers present at startup…

What is to be done if you find yourself in the first situation (too-technical leader)? I found myself there before a few times...reporting to someone who was no doubt a brilliant IC but has no concept of things like communicating vision or even basic project management. Would be curious to understand if anyone has been able to "fix" this from the IC side.

I find it hard to imagine that it's possible to, in all likelihood, improve a too-technical leader problem from the individual team member position. There's only two ways through which that I can conceive it being solved:

1. Too-technical leader realizes they aren't fit for purpose, perhaps due to indicators like stress, missed targets, team morale, etc.

2. Higher-up leadership notices aforementioned issues and give them the ultimatum: leave or side-/demote to more technically-focused role.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#152

Post by elric »

samhuk wrote: post #54

I'll raise your spark for complete destruction. Here's an incomplete list that I keep around of the mechanisms that I've observed so far that have played a big part in the decline/destruction of an engineering team (and product thereof): 1. Too-technical leaders: As startup scales, there can sometimes be a mad dash to fill new leadership roles (e.g. VP of Eng, Arch, CTO, etc.). Super-star engineers present at startup…

I'll throw in greed as another factor. Being ambitious is fine, but being greedy will wreck a startup in no time flat. Or in the case of my previous employers, in about 13 months ...

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#153

Post by wavelander »

g9yuayon wrote: post #128

I really like the approach of Netflix of 10 years ago when it was still small. They hired mature people so they could get rid of processes. Indeed, they actually tried to de-process everything. As a result, things just happened. Non-event was often mentioned and expected in Netflix at that time. Case in point, active-active regions just happened in a few months. A really easy to use deployment tool, Asgard, just happ…

This makes a lot of sense at deep tech places that don't sell to enterprises where one can put their head down and just work on technical challenges. A similar place like Mongo DB or the hardware division of NVidia comes to mind. But if you're supposed to iterate with any input from more than 2 people that isn't highly objective (technical metrics that can correlate well with product satisfaction), communication and diffused collaboration is important and necessary. That doesn't mean it has to suck. But the Netflix model you described isn't applicable everywhere and shouldn't be blindly replicated.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#154

Post by F-W-M »

bcantrill wrote: post #115
halkony wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ray Dalio talks about this in his book "Principles." The specific advice he offers is "hire slowly, fire quickly."

Terrible advice (from a broadly terrible book, I hasten to add). The reason that this is terrible advice: if you "fire quickly", it is because something is either grievously wrong (a mishire) or you are firing based on limited evidence. If the former, you have a hiring problem, not a firing problem; if the latter, you will generate a fear-based culture. Now, if you're running a prison, a fear-based culture may be exa…

In Germany it is very hard to fire people but there is a six month period in the beginning, where one can be fired without reason. Is it possible to gauge a new employee during that timeframe?

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#155

Post by samhuk »

lr4444lr wrote: post #116
samhuk wrote: post #54

I'll raise your spark for complete destruction. Here's an incomplete list that I keep around of the mechanisms that I've observed so far that have played a big part in the decline/destruction of an engineering team (and product thereof): 1. Too-technical leaders: As startup scales, there can sometimes be a mad dash to fill new leadership roles (e.g. VP of Eng, Arch, CTO, etc.). Super-star engineers present at startup…

Here's an idea I've seen work: stop assuming people over 35 aren't a good fit for a start up. People who've been in leadership for a while but have the chops and in their day did on the ground work, and who can - given enough time and guidance - understand the minutest detail of a new tech stack or financial maneuver, command the respect of the super stars doing the day to day for their contribution of far seeing lea…

Preface: I'm not saying that this norm is necessarily right, rather just explaining the mechanism that I believe is at play here.

Isn't part of the issue that early on in a start-up, everyone is indispensable, and often that comes with putting in extra hours and going the "extra mile" for the viability of the company?

When you are over 35, 30 even, you are much more likely to have a spouse, children, etc., and all these command more of your time that the business wants to capitalize on.

Personally, I've seen some real rock-star engineers both at 20 and at 40, however more often than not for different reasons. Honestly, not once have I ever learned a decent life lesson from engineers around my age (I'de say I'm on the younger side), however it's been several highly memorable times that an engineer on the older side has pulled me away, given me some real hard-hitting, incredibly valuable engineering and life lessons, and changed my career and sometimes life for the better.

It's a complex world!

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#156

Post by samhuk »

elric wrote: post #152
samhuk wrote: post #54

I'll raise your spark for complete destruction. Here's an incomplete list that I keep around of the mechanisms that I've observed so far that have played a big part in the decline/destruction of an engineering team (and product thereof): 1. Too-technical leaders: As startup scales, there can sometimes be a mad dash to fill new leadership roles (e.g. VP of Eng, Arch, CTO, etc.). Super-star engineers present at startup…

I'll throw in greed as another factor. Being ambitious is fine, but being greedy will wreck a startup in no time flat. Or in the case of my previous employers, in about 13 months ...

I've always assumed that greed, particularly when it's egregious and endemic, would more rapidly unwind a start-up. My OC was more focusing on those mechanisms that tend to be at play at start-ups that cause them to gradually decline/implode.

However, I totally agree with your point. Also, sorry that happened to you!

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#157

Post by mattkrause »

Mistletoe wrote: post #92
yafbum wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big +1 on too technical leaders. Seen this a couple times with brilliant engineers who, once they became in charge of 50 different teams, appeared to try to just do the same work they did in one team but "scaled". Put every team in a spreadsheet and try to automate management through uniform metrics instead of focusing on managing and growing his direct reports. And another time, seen a less technical leader step in,…

I've seen this in science as well. Analysts get promoted to managers and managing is a completely different skill set that involves social skills, communication, empathy- all people skills that they didn't need to be a good analyst. They were promoted because they were good at being an analyst- meticulous, quiet, just do their job and don't interact with others. Unfortunately almost none of this carries over to being…

> I've seen this in science as well.

Academic science is pretty much designed this way.

You get a faculty job based on your brilliant work as an IC (i.e., first author papers) but running a research group is a totally different skill set—-and often one people get very little training for.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#158

Post by samhuk »

pojzon wrote: post #119
samhuk wrote: post #54

I'll raise your spark for complete destruction. Here's an incomplete list that I keep around of the mechanisms that I've observed so far that have played a big part in the decline/destruction of an engineering team (and product thereof): 1. Too-technical leaders: As startup scales, there can sometimes be a mad dash to fill new leadership roles (e.g. VP of Eng, Arch, CTO, etc.). Super-star engineers present at startup…

Im seen as a problem engineer even if its never my intention. Im a bit anxious and introverted and thus like to get my part done and focus on other things. This always results in rest of the team losing will to go far and beyond. I dont know what to do about it, beside aknowledging it exists. Do you say that ppl like me should simply quit and go working at sewege? I dont think I like that idea. So what can I do if th…

From somebody who, perhaps sometimes can be quite full-on about software quality, craftsmanship, and just generally doing good, here's what's helped me in the past when faced with a company/team that has morale, skill, or other problems:

1. "The extent to which you publicly complain about something should be proportional to the robustness of your solution and your confidence in it."

2. If you think things need to be done better, lead by example. I've found that you will be hated for saying things are bad, but loved for proving how things can be good (by example).

3. Note down your concerns (Notion is free!). Wait on them, then talk about them >=1 day later if you still feel like they are valid.

4. Ensure you have enough employable skills on the side so that you can jump ship if the company or your place within it is totally DOA.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#159

Post by zenlf »

victor9000 wrote: post #102

The failure modes I've encountered: 1. Toxic team members who can't be fired. These people will reduce morale down to zero and force your best people to leave. In one case it was the CEOs long-time friend, and in the other case it was one of the technical founders. If you find yourself as an employee in a similar situation, then go ahead and pack things up because it will never get better. 2. Selling to Fortune 500s…

How do you bully people into joining a company?

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#160

Post by jonas21 »

Tainnor wrote: post #133
samhuk wrote: post #54

I'll raise your spark for complete destruction. Here's an incomplete list that I keep around of the mechanisms that I've observed so far that have played a big part in the decline/destruction of an engineering team (and product thereof): 1. Too-technical leaders: As startup scales, there can sometimes be a mad dash to fill new leadership roles (e.g. VP of Eng, Arch, CTO, etc.). Super-star engineers present at startup…

Problem engineers are not necessarily all new hires. It could also be people who were there initially but fail to transition into a role more suitable for a growing company. A classical example, which I've seen before, is a cowboy coder who can be a useful asset in the very early stages, but who later demonstrates a total lack of teamwork ability. Such people are even worse than bad new hires because they have a cert…

This sounds like the opposite of what the author had in mind. The cowboy coder is the one with spark, and the need to "transition into a role more suitable for a growing company" is the problem.
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