Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How a startup loses its spark

blog.johnqian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 287 posts

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#131

Post by ricardobayes »

samhuk wrote: post #54

I'll raise your spark for complete destruction. Here's an incomplete list that I keep around of the mechanisms that I've observed so far that have played a big part in the decline/destruction of an engineering team (and product thereof): 1. Too-technical leaders: As startup scales, there can sometimes be a mad dash to fill new leadership roles (e.g. VP of Eng, Arch, CTO, etc.). Super-star engineers present at startup…

Re: 3. "Problem engineers" are a similar problem to those users in a forum who don't actively break the rules but destroy the community.

And for 4, the opposite is even worse, aka "no management". So when you develop something but it turns out the outcome was not needed or in a different way.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#132

Post by arunbahl »

bcantrill wrote: post #112
samhuk wrote: post #54

I'll raise your spark for complete destruction. Here's an incomplete list that I keep around of the mechanisms that I've observed so far that have played a big part in the decline/destruction of an engineering team (and product thereof): 1. Too-technical leaders: As startup scales, there can sometimes be a mad dash to fill new leadership roles (e.g. VP of Eng, Arch, CTO, etc.). Super-star engineers present at startup…

That's a great taxonomy of foot-guns! As to how they can be avoided, I can only describe some of what has worked for us so far, with the caveats that we are still small (~60 employees); that none of this is formulaic or perfect; and that there are many reasons why what we have done might not work for others -- or may not work for us as we get larger! That said, here is some of what has broadly worked for us: 1. Writi…

I’ve been a big fan of Oxide’s approach for a while - thank you for articulating and sharing the thinking behind it.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#133

Post by Tainnor »

samhuk wrote: post #54

I'll raise your spark for complete destruction. Here's an incomplete list that I keep around of the mechanisms that I've observed so far that have played a big part in the decline/destruction of an engineering team (and product thereof): 1. Too-technical leaders: As startup scales, there can sometimes be a mad dash to fill new leadership roles (e.g. VP of Eng, Arch, CTO, etc.). Super-star engineers present at startup…

Problem engineers are not necessarily all new hires. It could also be people who were there initially but fail to transition into a role more suitable for a growing company.

A classical example, which I've seen before, is a cowboy coder who can be a useful asset in the very early stages, but who later demonstrates a total lack of teamwork ability.

Such people are even worse than bad new hires because they have a certain clout with management who is therefore more willing to turn a blind eye.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#134

Post by Tainnor »

pojzon wrote: post #119
samhuk wrote: post #54

I'll raise your spark for complete destruction. Here's an incomplete list that I keep around of the mechanisms that I've observed so far that have played a big part in the decline/destruction of an engineering team (and product thereof): 1. Too-technical leaders: As startup scales, there can sometimes be a mad dash to fill new leadership roles (e.g. VP of Eng, Arch, CTO, etc.). Super-star engineers present at startup…

Im seen as a problem engineer even if its never my intention. Im a bit anxious and introverted and thus like to get my part done and focus on other things. This always results in rest of the team losing will to go far and beyond. I dont know what to do about it, beside aknowledging it exists. Do you say that ppl like me should simply quit and go working at sewege? I dont think I like that idea. So what can I do if th…

Well, nobody has the intention of being a problem engineer. That said, from your comment I haven't really understood why you're considered (or are considering yourself) to be a problem engineer?

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#135

Post by yafbum »

Mistletoe wrote: post #92
yafbum wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big +1 on too technical leaders. Seen this a couple times with brilliant engineers who, once they became in charge of 50 different teams, appeared to try to just do the same work they did in one team but "scaled". Put every team in a spreadsheet and try to automate management through uniform metrics instead of focusing on managing and growing his direct reports. And another time, seen a less technical leader step in,…

I've seen this in science as well. Analysts get promoted to managers and managing is a completely different skill set that involves social skills, communication, empathy- all people skills that they didn't need to be a good analyst. They were promoted because they were good at being an analyst- meticulous, quiet, just do their job and don't interact with others. Unfortunately almost none of this carries over to being…

> I wished many times that they just hired people with management skills from some field completely outside of science, a manager doesn't really need to know the intricacies of the work to do their job well.

Having been there too, I feel like this is another recipe for disaster. Technical management needs to be able to make calls on escalations — that's in fact one of their main jobs — and when they don't have the depth of knowledge to make the call on merit, they make it on rash impulse, or favoritism, or (perhaps worst of all) don't make the call and let issues fester.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#136

Post by g9yuayon »

silentsea90 wrote: post #129
g9yuayon wrote: post #128

I really like the approach of Netflix of 10 years ago when it was still small. They hired mature people so they could get rid of processes. Indeed, they actually tried to de-process everything. As a result, things just happened. Non-event was often mentioned and expected in Netflix at that time. Case in point, active-active regions just happened in a few months. A really easy to use deployment tool, Asgard, just happ…

Wow that's so cool but makes sense! Is it not like that there anymore? They still hire experienced engineers, so I wonder what changed? As an aside, is there any low hanging fruit / interesting work left to do at Netflix?

I left Netflix years ago, so I don't know their current culture. Netflix's culture demands very strong leadership and probably works only when the company is small enough. From CEO and down, leaders in every level need to know how to set context for their teams, give enough freedom to their teams, while making sure failures are manageable and success rate are maximized. That is, Netflix assumed that people would make mistakes and fail, but the trick was to ensure that failures do not hinder overall success of the teams and the company.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#137

Post by halkony »

throwaway80492 wrote: post #51
fhd2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair, not the best example of regulation countering the tragedy of the commons, because it's just made up. Unfortunately, any real world examples I can think of (nature preservation, gun control, ...) are seemingly controversial.

What even is the specific tragedy of the commons in this case? I mean real, observable things, not theories.

Isn't the tragedy of the commons how developing technology consumes our attention spans?

Human attention span is a finite resource (we can only do so much in one life), and tech startups can consume a lot of that for relatively little payoff. Building a successful startup is like solving the bitcoin hash on your first few cycles. The barrier for entry is low, but you can hit it big (and consume a lot of cheap, finite* power too).

The payoff is worth the risk since our communication technology is nascent and underexplored. We have an abundance of time right now because of what tech has done for us, but the cultural and environmental costs of growing tech are not well understood.

Use of attention span is difficult to measure right now, but that could change in the coming decades. That said, parent comment seems to use "tragedy of the commons" as a stand in for "human nature."

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#138

Post by version_five »

g9yuayon wrote: post #128

I really like the approach of Netflix of 10 years ago when it was still small. They hired mature people so they could get rid of processes. Indeed, they actually tried to de-process everything. As a result, things just happened. Non-event was often mentioned and expected in Netflix at that time. Case in point, active-active regions just happened in a few months. A really easy to use deployment tool, Asgard, just happ…

Importantly, this requires mature engineers and managers. Nothing worse (from personal experience) than working at a place that hires experienced engineering talent and then has a bunch of junior "leadership" telling them what to do. That's how you end up inundated with meetings and frameworks and blablabla. Obviously you need experienced developers to get stuff done without handholding, but you need managers that can "manage" - I say coordinate, without handholding.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#139

Post by ricardobayes »

WanderPanda wrote: post #109
liquidpele wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget: Hiring remote contractors to “speed up” things. Dev will slow to 50% and meetings will double as you attempt unsuccessfully to teach them how to code.

More general hazard: Treating engineers as fungible resources

Absolutely. If you have a software company, literally 100% of your company valuation goes home after 6PM.

If a key engineer leaves, you lose a _lot_ more than 2-300k.

In opportunity cost, you lose tens of millions, possibly.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#140

Post by halkony »

bcantrill wrote: post #115
halkony wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ray Dalio talks about this in his book "Principles." The specific advice he offers is "hire slowly, fire quickly."

Terrible advice (from a broadly terrible book, I hasten to add). The reason that this is terrible advice: if you "fire quickly", it is because something is either grievously wrong (a mishire) or you are firing based on limited evidence. If the former, you have a hiring problem, not a firing problem; if the latter, you will generate a fear-based culture. Now, if you're running a prison, a fear-based culture may be exa…

Could you expand on your other criticisms of the book? How does it conflict with your experience? I'm still learning.
Post reply on HN