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Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

torrentfreak.com

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Re: Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author’s life is too long. Surely, 20 years is far sufficient to incentivize creating media, although I would err on the side of 10 years. The copyright term is automatically too long if my anyone who would benefit from it entering the public domain is dead.

I think (but could be convinced otherwise) that the term is less important than the restrictions. More liberal definitions of fair use, for example, or clarity on when something is a copy or a derivative (like with people getting sued for vaguely similar songs) would be better. The work is always the authors, I'm less concerned about them retaining some kind of claim on it, especially if they're still actively using…

I think that makes the situation more complex than needs be by opening people up to more legal liability than necessary.

As far as society is concerned, society’s resources (police, courts, etc) should only be given up to the point that the incentive to create works of art exists.

At zero copyright length, we can say artists (and media creating/owning businesses) have less than a desirable amount of incentive to create (from society’s perspective).

At 100 years, we can easily say there is too much incentive to seek rent and rest on one’s laurels.

The most expensive works of art covered by copyright right now are big budget Hollywood movies and tv shows. If these businesses would continue to make them with a 20 year copyright term, then 20 years should be the max. And I might even say they would continue to make them with a 10 year term.

Re: Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

#92
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people pirate to get stuff for free. If everything was cheaply, easily available, piracy would exist at similar numbers. Now, I do agree that “one pirate number doesn’t necessarily equate to one lost sale”. But that’s not what you’re arguing. Pirates have been saying this for decades, and yet despite content being easier than ever, with pricing falling faster than ever (non-streaming services), piracy is as heal…

> Most people pirate to get stuff for free. If everything was cheaply, easily available, piracy would exist at similar numbers. As the other poster mentioned, the music piracy scene today is a shadow of its old self. There has never again been a private tracker as vast and ambitious as what.cd. Seed numbers are down on lots of remaining trackers. I logged into Soulseek recently (which used to be the obsessive music a…

It’s actually because torrenting is harder than downloading YouTube audio streams.

People want shit for free.

The number of people that openly state that they pirate music has contracted a little bit, but it’s nowhere near “non-existent”.

Re: Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to start on this path is to support ranked choice voting.

Then we'll be free of copyright like Australia must be.

Start on this path guaranteed to achieve the desired results in X years, especially when Australia is not a big player on the global scene.

Re: Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

#94
post #70
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright should be life of the authors full stop. My dad dug ditches for half his life but I don’t get checks in the mail every time water flows through them.

I think the publish date plus 20 years not to exceed the life of the author is plenty.

There are some significant edge cases that can plainly make that unfair.

Let's say Kurt Cobain dies at 27 (or even younger) without an heir other than a very young daughter. ~95% of his earning capacity might be in the next 15 years, rather than the prior 5 years. The daughter might be cast into relying on charity while everybody else gets to freely commercially exploit his music after his death.

('the US social safety net needs reformed'; pre-empting those responses, because one is extraordinarily difficult to reform, the other isn't nearly so; that'd just be an excuse to hide behind)

Ritchie Valens comes from a poor family, creates a gigantic hit, dies at 17. His family deserves nothing specifically, while everybody else gets to freely commercially exploit his young talent forever.

A life of the author clause is inherently cruel. 20 years fixed, approaches that in a far more reasonable and fair manner. Families / heirs matter too. They often suffer, or otherwise carry a share of weight for the artist, so the artist can create, tour, publish, publicize, etc. Pretending otherwise is pure fantasy, it's life in an idealized vacuum.

Re: Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

#95
post #76
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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If AI destroys anyone it would be the artists, since labels with distribution networks could use it to create content without ever needing to pay anyone. The Internet should have taught us that if there is a portal the owner of that portal and the network effect around it has all the power. Look at Twitter. Half its users hate its new management and spend much of their time there complaining about it, but they are st…

Copyright is no threat to artists as artists create for their own drive.

Copyright will kill millionaire artists.

Currently the system has poor artists and millionaire artists. The millionaire artists will be hosed. The poor artists are already poor so not much changes for them.

Most music is produced by people at home and with friends chilling. Look at guitar center and all those stores. Lots of instruments sold. Same for art supplies.

There are only a few thousand wealthy artists.

Re: Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

#96
post #27

> “When Defendants exploit Plaintiffs’ sound recordings without authorization, neither Plaintiffs nor their artists see a dime. All of the artists are dead. > Not only does this harm Plaintiffs and the artists or their heirs by depriving them of compensation, Hereditary wealth and continued rent-seeking is a very, very poor argument in favor of eternal copyright protection. > but it undermines the value of music,” th…

[flagged]

Yes it should. Property is property. It is insane that some property somehow becomes unownable after an arbitrary length of time. If I own land, that land will go to my heirs or, if none exist, on auction. Then someone else will own it. It won't become permanently public and non-property. Intellectual property ought to work the same way. The great part is that we can create an infinite amount of intellectual property, so everybody has an equal opportunity to own as much as their fingers can write. Land is finite, art is infinite. If there were a lot of art available entirely for free, people would never pay for any new art and we will stagnate.

I guess patents could be forcibly taken by the government and licenses minted for free, if the current holder is determined to be maliciously setting the price for licensing too high and holding back science.

Re: Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

#97
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright should be life of the authors full stop. My dad dug ditches for half his life but I don’t get checks in the mail every time water flows through them.

Author’s life is too long. Surely, 20 years is far sufficient to incentivize creating media, although I would err on the side of 10 years. The copyright term is automatically too long if my anyone who would benefit from it entering the public domain is dead.

I think we need to completely revisit the ownership model here. Kill copyright entirely. (I would vote for anyone-- up to and including Mike Pence-- who made this a major plank of their campaign)

We have at least one corner of the universe where we've defeated scarcity. We can't run out of music. Hell, we can't even run out of a specific recorded performance, if even the most trivial efforts of due-diligence backups are performed. We should be proud-- we're at least one step on the way towards Star Trek replicators and universal abundance.

But the current system is so tied to the idea of "markets" and "ownership" that only really make sense for scarce physical goods, that we ended up having to force everyone, under threat of law, to treat a limitless resource that's part of our shared cultural experience, like a rare physical widget that must be owned, sliced up, and sold under restrictive covenant.

We should be taking all the money going into the content business-- all the funds being spent on the production of movies, music, novels, art, potentially even software-- and use it to bankroll an enormous centralized endowment for the creative community.

This immediately silences all "but how will artists eat?" strawmen. Even if you're not a live-show performer or merchandising expert, you get paid by the endowment on a predictable stipend basis, rather than having to hope you can effectively monetize a package of "rights" while dealing with an industry full of middlemen out to rip you off.

This would ensure that many, many more artists can live their passion-- how many great but unknown bands could spend their lives touring, if we took the money that bankrolled Taylor Swift's tour and sliced it up into 50k-per-person-per-year grants? How many sculptors could we keep on the books for the price of one Anish Kapoor? It would also be interesting to compare efficiency of funds delivery-- replacing a bunch of for-profit publishers with a single cooperative or state-run entity probably results in more dollars actually reaching artists overall.

It also avoids the perverse incentives on the other side-- if you make one world-breaking hit, you can't ride it forever. Just because you sung White Christmas once doesn't mean you get out of ever having to work again. If we eliminate the opportunity to slice and subdivide "rights" to a work, then there's no incentive to hold back maximum utilization of it. Imagine the improved utility of modern content services if they can get legal access to all the things-- Netflix and Hulu would have to compete on the best infrastructure, UI and tooling, rather than "only we have Futurama".

Re: Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

#98
post #83
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because the contract he signed with his employers did not include an agreement where he continued to get paid for when water flowed through the ditches. Some artists will have a contract for a lump sum, others will have agreements for every time their record is played.

The contracts of adhesion that perpetuate society disproportionately valuing one form of labor over another do not validate the exploitation of one group of laborer over another.

Not all labor is created equal, nor should it be. It's not equal, it can never be equal.

And there's nothing that can ever be done to change that, no matter how hard a state might try to force 'equal' distribution of unearned money.

Society should value one form of labor different from another, it's good that it always has and always will.

I've worked with plenty of very lazy bums that intentionally, knowingly do 1/3 of their job while other people have to work far harder because of them (or the business would fail and everybody loses). People like that are free riders, society should not be kind to them when they're repeatedly fired from jobs. All labor isn't equal, quite obviously, and treating it as though it is, is unfair to the vast majority.

Re: Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

#99
post #27

> “When Defendants exploit Plaintiffs’ sound recordings without authorization, neither Plaintiffs nor their artists see a dime. All of the artists are dead. > Not only does this harm Plaintiffs and the artists or their heirs by depriving them of compensation, Hereditary wealth and continued rent-seeking is a very, very poor argument in favor of eternal copyright protection. > but it undermines the value of music,” th…

[flagged]

Oh labels love AI: they can train their catalogs and produce “new” works from dead artists. Contracts already have AI clauses which, if an artist isn’t careful, gives the label rights to use their works to have AI produce new content under their name.

Re: Record labels hit Internet Archive with new copyright lawsuit

#100
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people pirate to get stuff for free. If everything was cheaply, easily available, piracy would exist at similar numbers. As the other poster mentioned, the music piracy scene today is a shadow of its old self. There has never again been a private tracker as vast and ambitious as what.cd. Seed numbers are down on lots of remaining trackers. I logged into Soulseek recently (which used to be the obsessive music a…

It’s actually because torrenting is harder than downloading YouTube audio streams. People want shit for free. The number of people that openly state that they pirate music has contracted a little bit, but it’s nowhere near “non-existent”.

If downloading YouTube audio streams is what music piracy has become today, then I stand by my dismal remarks. YouTube audio is recompressed, even the highest-quality YT from yt-dlp --bestaudio is not up to the standards of yore, and you miss out on things like album-art scans.
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