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Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

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Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#81

Post by tiew9Vii »

JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #12
cdot2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is energica really the leader in electric motorcycle sales? I couldnt find any stats but Ive definitely seen some zero bikes on the road and Ive never seen an energica in person

They are going nowhere. Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. Given the ratio between the weight of the motorcycle and the weight of the passenger/s they are extemely efficient, having the whole passenger vehicles switch to motorcycles would be even better than have them switch to 3000 pounds EVs. The vast majority of people are too coward to drive them unfor…

If you ignore emissions on the environmental pros/cons and if you believe them or not…

As a riding experience, electric power delivery, the instant torque and performance will make the riding experience more fun. As a pure riding experience electric is probably far better than combustion engines, and I love my ice powered bikes, the noise, the different engine characteristics, singles, boxers, il4, v4, vtwins etc as much as anyone else.

Practicality, range, weight is different and we’re probably a long time off comparable practicality of mid to large capacity size motorcycles.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#82

Post by antisthenes »

driverdan wrote: post #58
mmh0000 wrote: post #36

I’ve been wanting an electric motorcycle for years. But every time I look at the pricing I just can’t justify it. An entry level electric bike for $25k or a top of the line BMW for $18k. It’s just not even a comparison.

Your numbers are completely wrong. Zero has a bike for $12k https://zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-fx and BMW sells bikes that go well into the $20k ranges. You can get a Surron for under $4k, but it's more like a cross between a bicycle and motorcycle. I do agree with the general premise, that electric is more expensive. There needs to be more competition to drive prices down like is happening for cars.

You can get a "deathwish" scooter from Alibaba that can go 55mph for $3000 also.

The problem is that the electric motorcycle market isn't big enough to enjoy efficiencies of scale, so the only ones that exist cater to the wealthy/luxury clients.

The value proposition for motorcycles is really not as impressive either. The instant electric torque is more of a safety issue on bikes, because you can already trivially pop wheelies on regular gas-powered motorcycles.

On top of that, they have better range, because the battery capacity on a motorbike is limited by the width of the human hip, not highway lane.

The best use case for that is probably the thing you linked, Surron, which is an e-MTB essentially, where high torque is really nice for going up hills (and isn't really required for 60mph+ cruising on freeways)

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#83

Post by bastawhiz »

mmh0000 wrote: post #36

I’ve been wanting an electric motorcycle for years. But every time I look at the pricing I just can’t justify it. An entry level electric bike for $25k or a top of the line BMW for $18k. It’s just not even a comparison.

My 22 Zero FXE was $13k. My Energica was more than double that, but what you get for that is range and 40mph higher top speed. If you're looking for a commuter bike, you don't need to kill yourself on price. If you're looking to scare the shit out of yourself every time you send it, you'll pay Ducati prices.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#84

Post by dharmab »

SoftTalker wrote: post #80
dharmab wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make any sense. Many regular issues are not diagnosable by computer. I have legacy access to some current BMW service data and it does not behave the way you describe at all- I only have to whip out the scanner for certain electrical and computer issues, and to update service schedules.

Everything on a modern car runs through the computer. Climate control, entertainment systems, windows, lights, seats, various driver aids such as cruise control, lane-departure, blind spot warnings, hands-free driving, automatic/antilock braking, traction control, etc. as well as the engine and transmisison. Sure, something like a failing wheel bearing would still be diagnosed by the mechanic, but they need the scann…

Oh, I thought you were talking about motorcycles. My BMW motorcycle has only 2 of the 11 features you mentioned :)

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#85

Post by bastawhiz »

notatoad wrote: post #70
driverdan wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your numbers are completely wrong. Zero has a bike for $12k https://zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-fx and BMW sells bikes that go well into the $20k ranges. You can get a Surron for under $4k, but it's more like a cross between a bicycle and motorcycle. I do agree with the general premise, that electric is more expensive. There needs to be more competition to drive prices down like is happening for cars.

>but it's more like a cross between a bicycle and motorcycle. and that's kinda the reason that the value proposition for electric motorbikes isn't very good. if you can give up the requirement of "i want to drive on the highway", an electric bicycle is going to do what you need for a fraction of the cost. electric motorbikes lean more towards toys than practical tools, so they're priced like toys.

My FXE goes fifteen over the speed limit on the freeway. There's no universe where that's not good on the highway.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#86

Post by bastawhiz »

itsZero wrote: post #61
mmh0000 wrote: post #36

I’ve been wanting an electric motorcycle for years. But every time I look at the pricing I just can’t justify it. An entry level electric bike for $25k or a top of the line BMW for $18k. It’s just not even a comparison.

Agree that it’s expensive and the range sucks, but I still love my Energica EVA Ribelle. It’s super satisfying to ride! So far the furthest I’ve ridden is from Bay Area to Big Sur and back, which needs to fast charge like 2 times each way.

I love my Eva Ribelle as well! I'm envious that you get to ride it around in the mountains in CA. I'm thinking about hauling mine out to the tail of the dragon at some point, but that's a still a long journey for me.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#87

Post by bastawhiz »

i_k_k wrote: post #40

Off topic, but does anyone make simple electric motorcycles? You know, a frame, battery, motor, etc., but without a connected app and all the goo that comes with it.

I've got a Zero and an Energica and neither really uses the app (the energica app is actually too old to install on my Pixel 6). The only compelling use for the Zero app is to download bike log data and upgrade the firmware.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#88

Post by mynameisash »

eightnoneone wrote: post #25
JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are going nowhere. Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. Given the ratio between the weight of the motorcycle and the weight of the passenger/s they are extemely efficient, having the whole passenger vehicles switch to motorcycles would be even better than have them switch to 3000 pounds EVs. The vast majority of people are too coward to drive them unfor…

Terrible idea?!? Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? Or an electric one? I've been riding for ~40 years and I don't think I've _ever_ met someone who rode an ICE bike for the fuel/emissions efficiency. It's for the fun and adventure. My stock Energica does 0-60 in 2.8s. WAAAY more fun than my 30yo 1100cc. Pretty GOOD idea from where I'm sitting.

Maybe not the only reason, though that's certainly high on my list. I don't find much time to ride recreationally, so probably 98% of my rides are for my commute. My 50 mpg bike is much cheaper to ride than either of our cars. Plus HOV benefits.

I absolutely would factor fuel efficiency into my purchase decision, but it's also not the only reason. Because you're right, they are definitely fun :)

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#90

Post by winddude »

porknubbins wrote: post #17

Are there any OEMs whose service manuals are hard to find? I restore cars and motorcycles and have never had trouble finding a pdf or hard copy for around $20. Its good that they are doing this though a lot of the secrets I’d want to know about an electric motorcycle are about the ECU when that software is some of the most tightly guarded of any.

More rare and special edition cars. Like a number of the SRT cars didn't used to be covered in the regular dodge service manuals.
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