80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans • Hacker News Board

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#181

Post by MBCook » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:34 AM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #89

ChuckMcM wrote: post #39

I had lunch, not too long ago, with a senior executive of a silicon valley tech company that was moaning about how much of a pain it was to get people to come into the office and how it felt like things would never return to the way they were. And I told them I actually knew of a way to get 100% of their employees to return to the office happily. When they asked what this magic bullet was I said, "Go back to offices,…

> And I told them I actually knew of a way to get 100% of their employees to return to the office happily I guarantee this isn’t true. The remote work lifers would find a reason to think that private on-site offices was bad, too.

It’s something. It would fix a large complaint with most offices, and it shows that you’re really trying. You know what else would be trying? Offering other other incentives. Like increased pay to compensate for the commute time and cost.

Bringing in cupcakes once a month it’s not trying. Simply threatening layoffs is not trying. Saying the word culture 30 times is not trying.

The pandemic proved work from home works for a large number of people and many of them found at a serious quality of life improvement. trying to take that away and asking people to pretend it didn’t exist in exchange for some stupid token like adding a couple extra plants to the office so it feels more “homey“ shows employees that you don’t care about them AT ALL. Just like it did when you tried to force them back into the office during the initial height of a deadly pandemic.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#182

Post by mattgreenrocks » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:34 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #153

I have a new conspiracy theory on RTO in Big Tech. Much has been said about commercial real estate. But I think getting highly capable people to work hard for you is a difficult problem & something tech executives put a lot of thought into. If you don't pay people enough, someone else will. But if you pay them too much, they'll become financially independent. Mid six figures is an objectively life-changing amount of…

Yep. Hence the economic alarms about salaries being “too high”: remote work enables geo-arbitrage, which removes a significant portion of employer leverage.

If employees could buy their way out of the system, then, by definition, capital is leaving power and money on the table. And it absolutely loathes that.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#183

Post by MBCook » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:35 AM UTC

smeej wrote: post #172

whack wrote: post #157

> Their plan was put on pause through the end of the year as Covid-19 cases ticked up once again throughout the U.S., so EY leaders used that time to ask employees about their reluctance to come into the office. Common threads stood out to Frank Giampietro, EY’s chief wellbeing officer for the Americas: Employees weren’t sure what to do about pet care or child care. > In response, EY announced a fund in February 2022…

I came here looking for this exact comment. That offer would feel more like an insult to me than an incentive.

Add a zero. Then it’s a real offer.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#184

Post by dudul » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:36 AM UTC

system16 wrote: post #16

My company forced a three day a week hybrid, despite major pushback from the employees and a lot of resignations after it was implemented. They’re now trying to nudge people to come in every day. On Mondays and Fridays the CEO comes in, pacing around, unamused the big fancy space is sitting empty. All the executives want to force full time RTO but of course they come in late (if at all) or leave early whenever they w…

We can slice it the way we want. We can talk about office space cost or "decreased productivity" or whatever. The real reason these execs are pissed at remote workers is because these filthy peons now get to enjoy a bit of the freedom/flexibility that was until then reserved to them.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#185

Post by MBCook » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:37 AM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #25

itronitron wrote: post #14

>> The sunk cost of unused office space has been a major factor in companies’ decisions to change their RTO approach, says Kacher. I'm not sure that the author, or the company executives, know what a sunk cost is. Just to clarify, since there is a younger generation on HN now, 'sunk cost' is something you have spent money on that you can't get back. The 'sunk cost fallacy' is the mistaken belief that you have to use…

> I'm not sure that the author, or the company executives, know what a sunk cost is. Just to clarify, since there is a younger generation on HN now, 'sunk cost' is something you have spent money on that you can't get back. Depending on how long your office lease runs - and many run 5-10 years - it effectively is sunk cost because, short of a bankruptcy, you can't get out of that super expensive office space that's no…

Assuming you’re even allowed to sublease.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#186

Post by LapsangGuzzler » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:39 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #153

I have a new conspiracy theory on RTO in Big Tech. Much has been said about commercial real estate. But I think getting highly capable people to work hard for you is a difficult problem & something tech executives put a lot of thought into. If you don't pay people enough, someone else will. But if you pay them too much, they'll become financially independent. Mid six figures is an objectively life-changing amount of…

I don’t think it’s really a conspiracy theory, this a fundamental aspect of American capitalism.

Health insurance is a perfect example of a carrot that companies want to maintain control over in order to maintain a dedicated workforce. By keeping “affordable” (eye roll) access to healthcare tied to a full time job, they keep butts in seats. This isn’t new or isolated to tech companies. It’s always been about maintaining control from the top.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#187

Post by MBCook » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:40 AM UTC

system16 wrote: post #16

My company forced a three day a week hybrid, despite major pushback from the employees and a lot of resignations after it was implemented. They’re now trying to nudge people to come in every day. On Mondays and Fridays the CEO comes in, pacing around, unamused the big fancy space is sitting empty. All the executives want to force full time RTO but of course they come in late (if at all) or leave early whenever they w…

A friend of mine works at a company that keeps pushing full time RTO. One of the big arguments is the CEO is always there every single day. “Setting the tone“.

For an hour or two. The rest of the time he works from home.

You can guess what the employees think of that. It is absolutely not a secret. The big believer doesn’t follow his own rules.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#188

Post by SoftTalker » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:41 AM UTC

nucleardog wrote: post #151

troupe wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are ba…

> My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good My money would be on that being half right. They have no way to really measure productivity, but they were very afraid that productivity would drop to zero—and that is something they would be able to see. Before COVID I don’t know how many times discussions…

Honestly, when I work from home, I watch TV all day. Not literally -- I mostly read HN and other sites, do personal email, do household tasks, walk the dogs, do a load of laundry. I still get my work done, to a "meets expectations" level, which takes me a few hours, normally right after lunch, and that's good enough for me.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#189

Post by asielen » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:41 AM UTC

markus_zhang wrote: post #167

RTO is fun when I'm the only one working in my section. I get a quiet and large workspace, good coffee, free lunch and some snacks. But it's going to be bad if everyone starts coming back and I have to get in a long line to grab lunch...

Same, I've been going into my office a couple times a week and usually I am one of a couple dozen people there in an office that fits hundreds. I love it.

However last week there was a company event and the office was full all week. It was terrible, couldn't get anything done.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#190

Post by ekianjo » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:42 AM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #166

rabuse wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly think it's mostly a huge ego boost to flex with. "Look at how GIANT our new billion dollar HQ is, and look at all of these people working for ME!"

Don’t forget that a lot of offices are leased for many years or even purchased/built. Do you know what looks REALLY bad? A giant fancy office with five people in it. Better force people to fill it up. We are stuck, we spent the money, can’t have it look bad.

Who cares what it looks like. Sunk cost fallacy