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CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

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Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#101

Post by toyg »

creatonez wrote: post #78
loph wrote: post #67

Simply put, I'm not using anything with 0racle's name on it. Free software from 0racle? There are gonna be strings attached... to lawyers.

Oracle Linux, surprisingly, is no strings attached. The licensing is straightforward GPL, the download pages are freely accessible. In this case, it might be Oracle's lawyers preventing them from being aggressive, because they wouldn't fare well trying to challenge Red Hat. If they screw up their treading-lightly strategy, or if they get into legal trouble, there could no longer be a suitable operating system to run…

It's because they are the underdog, in no position to impose anything. They do the work because they need it for strategic reasons, so they might as well give it away for goodwill.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#102

Post by toyg »

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #75
ticviking wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing given that the previous approach was hampered so much by confusion about where the value is. If this is a commitment to a set of source then the players can compete on ease of use, support or other stuff.

Right now I'm thinking about it in the way that I think about Let's Encrypt. Let's Encrypt has their own infrastructure, governance, etc., but I don't use Let's Encrypt products to interact with Let's Encrypt. Instead, I interact with Let's Encrypt via products like Certbot from the EFF. If OpenELA's going to provide source, and I access that source through builds provided by CIQ or SUSE or someone else, then I'll be…

Or java.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#104

Post by uberduper »

pxc wrote: post #95
uberduper wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like an obvious next step is to get enterprise hardware and software vendors to begin certifying on OpenELA in addition to RHEL. OpenELA10 or w/e could stand on its own as a competing enterprise linux standard that everyone is free to build from.

> OpenELA10 or w/e could stand on its own as a competing enterprise linux standard that everyone is free to build from. Idk. How is that standing on its own? SUSE already has a perfectly good enterprise Linux distro in SLE. If the point is to have an alternative standard that anyone can build from, why not just use that as the base?

Sure. SLE could become (the basis for) OpenELA10?

Seems to me that all the RHEL derivatives were perfectly content to let RH set the standards for enterprise linux. RH doesn't like that arrangement. SUSE probably wouldn't mind it.

All the derivatives have their EL8 and EL9 based distributions they've committed themselves to support for some time, so I'm sure they'll maintain bug for bug compatibility as best they can given the circumstances. No reason for them to keep following RH after that.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#105

Post by zzzoom »

pygar wrote: post #86

Probably a dumb question, as I'm not really on the enterprise side of Linux but: Isn't Canonical in the same business as Red Hat? Why doesn't Canonical seem to care about alleged "freeloaders"? Come to think of it, why is SUSE considered as a serious replacement for RHEL and not Ubuntu?

> Why doesn't Canonical seem to care about alleged "freeloaders"?

Ubuntu is downstream from Debian. They get a lot of packaging for free.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#106

Post by marcosdumay »

toyg wrote: post #101
creatonez wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle Linux, surprisingly, is no strings attached. The licensing is straightforward GPL, the download pages are freely accessible. In this case, it might be Oracle's lawyers preventing them from being aggressive, because they wouldn't fare well trying to challenge Red Hat. If they screw up their treading-lightly strategy, or if they get into legal trouble, there could no longer be a suitable operating system to run…

It's because they are the underdog, in no position to impose anything. They do the work because they need it for strategic reasons, so they might as well give it away for goodwill.

Well, it's not because they are the underdog.

They need to give it away for those same strategic reasons that they created it.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#107

Post by marcosdumay »

Espionage724 wrote: post #43

Why would anyone use a server OS that's a fork of another server OS, provided by a group of 3rd-parties with their own competing enterprise distros? I'm sure there's a reason for it with all the discussions, but if I want to use CentOS, why wouldn't I just use CentOS Stream that RH is providing? If I want RHEL, I'll go get RHEL that afaik is also free. If I want to see the future of RHEL, there's Fedora Server. And i…

Because soon that will be the fork everybody will target,and the de facto standard.

RHEL could have survived for a while in hostile mode if everybody was complacent (maybe making the entire thing profitable). But this is exactly people not being complacent.

Anyway, you can bet there will be infighting once this is established. But well, the power that free software grants for people to misbehave is very limited.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#108

Post by marcosdumay »

raverbashing wrote: post #23

So what's the story again? You either die a hero or you live enough to see yourself becoming the villain? And now even Oracle is looking like the reasonable player?

> And now even Oracle is looking like the reasonable player?

A broken clock and so on. Oracle has absolutely no reason to misbehave here, and everything to gain by being ethical. At this point, they would only do something wrong if the compulsion was too strong.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#109

Post by creatonez »

axus wrote: post #98
loph wrote: post #67

Simply put, I'm not using anything with 0racle's name on it. Free software from 0racle? There are gonna be strings attached... to lawyers.

Hopefully that OpenELA uses MariaDB and not MySQL.

My guess is that Oracle Linux will use OpenELA source code repositories to create a distribution that has the usual Oracle-specific quirks, whereas RockyLinux and SUSE will use these repositories to create a distribution that has Red Hat-specific quirks. Sounds like members will have the freedom to do whatever they want with their distribution, they probably won't let any one member exclude specific packaging repositories that are desired by other members.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#110

Post by geerlingguy »

linuxftw wrote: post #35

Part of the justification at the time for getting rid of CentOS proper in favor of CentOS "Stream" was that poor Red Hat was doing all the work and spending all the cash in support of CentOS. Red Hat even went as far to say that the CentOS leadership (board?) was in full support. Red Hat never allowed CentOS to have any kind of election. It was never a community driven project after Red Hat bought it. So, very intere…

Bryan Cantrill had an insightful talk "Corporate Open Source Anti-Patterns" surrounding events from 8-12 years ago, and all I'll say is history definitely echoes sometimes: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm8P4oCIY3g
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