CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association • Hacker News Board

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#81

Post by CaliforniaKarl » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 9:51 PM UTC

eraser215 wrote: post #52

colechristensen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it's good. IBM didn't want to continue supporting community things and so here we are, the RedHat business model was a bit tricky and increasingly so because of cloud computing. The great value of RedHat was supported software. You could buy one of those $10,000 per seat software packages for some engineering discipline that was guaranteed to work by RedHat and the vendor and if it wasn't they were quite motivate…

It's been made abundantly clear by many people in many places that this isn't an IBM thing.

Links pls?

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#82

Post by CaliforniaKarl » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 9:54 PM UTC

pxc wrote: post #27

whalesalad wrote: post #2

https://openela.org

> It will provide an open process to access source code that organizations can use to build distributions compatible with RHEL So they're not trying to create something like RHEL but in a way that is committed to being more 'open' somehow. They're still shooting for the bug-for-bug stuff, and still an effort that's parasitic on RHEL in terms of its substantive development. This whole situation sucks.

RHEL does a lot of work, yes, but a lot of that comes from volunteers. RHEL does contribute kernel patches; but Oracle and SUSE contribute there, too.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#83

Post by Espionage724 » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 9:54 PM UTC

anyoneamous wrote: post #72

eraser215 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you can. https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/new-year-new-red-hat-enterpri...

This falls under the heading of "technically correct" - in the sense that the limit is high enough for people to make the argument you are, and yet too low for most enterprise use-cases. Worse, the offer could be withdrawn at any time.

If you're enterprise with more than 16 machines, you can and should probably be paying for RHEL.

What I'm not understanding is why people need to use RHEL and would resort to free random forks of it, instead of just using CentOS Stream or Fedora that are basically the same thing, actually from RH, and 100% free. RHEL is not that special.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#84

Post by doubled112 » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 9:56 PM UTC

Espionage724 wrote: post #80

doubled112 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

16 devices doesn’t cover everything I have at home, and managing the license(s) isn’t something I’m looking to do.

So you'd rather use some random fork of RHEL?

For personal use I use Debian almost exclusively. Laptops, desktops, servers, VMs, Raspberry Pis, all of it.

Pre-Stream CentOS was never my preference, but I did spend some time running it to learn the RHEL way. The free licenses would fill that gap.

At work we run RHEL where we needed support and Alma where we don't. It was chosen for me. I'm watching to see how this plays out, but not incredibly concerned.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#85

Post by SahAssar » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 9:57 PM UTC

loph wrote: post #67

Simply put, I'm not using anything with 0racle's name on it. Free software from 0racle? There are gonna be strings attached... to lawyers.

Are you tying to make 0racle the new Micro$oft/M$? Whats the zero supposed to represent?

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#86

Post by pygar » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 9:58 PM UTC

Probably a dumb question, as I'm not really on the enterprise side of Linux but: Isn't Canonical in the same business as Red Hat? Why doesn't Canonical seem to care about alleged "freeloaders"?

Come to think of it, why is SUSE considered as a serious replacement for RHEL and not Ubuntu?

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#87

Post by ftaghn » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 10:01 PM UTC

loph wrote: post #67

Simply put, I'm not using anything with 0racle's name on it. Free software from 0racle? There are gonna be strings attached... to lawyers.

As much as people may hate oracle, they employ significant contributors to the Linux kernel. https://lwn.net/Articles/915435/

Many in very important subsystems. The XFS maintainer (who just recently stepped down from this role) and contributor Darrick Wong works for Oracle. Meanwhile, btrfs is the creation of Chris Mason, who worked there until 2012. Modern filesystems on linux owe a decent debt to Oracle. Good luck running an Oracle-free linux.

I often find it interesting when people imply the company is freeloading for having chosen the path of making an RHEL clone. They cloned RHEL because an unhealthy, dependent ecosystem was built around the one, singular linux distribution, not because they are unwilling to fund work.

Giving some serious competition to Red Hat can only be a good thing.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#88

Post by gareim » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 10:04 PM UTC

nhanlon wrote: post #70

gangohango wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CIQ is rocky.

We (RESF/Rocky) are _not_ CIQ, and do not take direction from CIQ. End of story.

I knew you'd show up and say this. CIQ's CEO claims to have founded Rocky and is the current president of RESF, is Rocky's most prominent sponsor, and Rocky's recent moves have been in the same direction that CIQ requires in order to survive. Regardless of direct control or not, Rocky's financial incentives align with CIQ's.

As you so point out your bias, it would be really nice if you didn't speak on behalf of your employer and let others make their own conclusions without hearing from those biased.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#89

Post by creatonez » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 10:08 PM UTC

pygar wrote: post #86

Probably a dumb question, as I'm not really on the enterprise side of Linux but: Isn't Canonical in the same business as Red Hat? Why doesn't Canonical seem to care about alleged "freeloaders"? Come to think of it, why is SUSE considered as a serious replacement for RHEL and not Ubuntu?

> Come to think of it, why is SUSE considered as a serious replacement for RHEL and not Ubuntu?

SLES and RHEL are somewhat similar, in that they both use the RPM package format, and they both have a 10 year support lifecycle. They are not entirely compatible though. They also make management software that is supposed to be as interoperable as possible with competitor distributions.

Anyways, last month SUSE announced they would be making an actual RHEL fork, so that's the real reason they are joining this new partnership -- it's not related to SLES, but a new distro they are making.

As for Ubuntu -- it is often touted as an alternative to RHEL. However, people don't like the weird ways in which Ubuntu diverges from the rest of the Linux community (Snap, LXD, ufw, etc.), so some attention is diverted towards Debian and RHEL, which are more focused on packaging software that is already proven. Red Hat does their innovation in Fedora, waits a few years to see if it catches on, then implements it in RHEL. This tends to have a greater degree of success than pushing it suddenly on users like Ubuntu does.

Re: CIQ, Oracle, SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association

#90

Post by DarkmSparks » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 10:09 PM UTC

I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. And tbh, these days, with whatever bad medicine google feels like foistering on us this week, Oracle are truly beginning to look more and more like the "good guys".

As much as any large evilcorp can be the good guys anyway.