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UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

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Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is the job of a UPS driver difficult and essential?

Have you ever loaded or unloaded a truck? It's the definition of difficult. Do you have things shipped to your house? I think most people would consider that essential in 2023.

> Have you ever loaded or unloaded a truck?

yes, but whether I've done substantial amounts of manual labor in past lives isn't really that relevant. Of course, you might be sitting in your chair and think "that looks really difficult", and that'd be a fair observation for someone who hasn't worked in the trades.

> It's the definition of difficult.

Difficult like "hard work", or difficult like "curing cancer"?

Loading/unloading a truck is definitely not "the definition of difficult". a lot of other professions that make a lot less than $170k a year would disagree. By the way, you might know that UPS has loaders and pre-loaders; they're not drivers, and they're not unionized (AFAIK). It'd be a lot more fun and less work to drive a truck than to do that, but I'd definitely argue that loading garbage cans in residential neighborhoods is far more difficult than being a UPS driver.

> Do you have things shipped to your house? I think most people would consider that essential in 2023.

Yes, of course, but I still wouldn't consider a UPS delivery essential, especially when there are so many other delivery services. Is Uber Eats essential? It might be the only thing keeping me alive, but it's still not essential in my view. Even the USPS isn't really essential.

For some people who have oxygen equipment or COPD or something, electricity might be keeping them alive. Those are truly essential.

Here's a thought experiment: if UPS was still available but cost ten times as much, would you still pay it? If not, then it's probably not essential. Those paying for electricity for life support equipment would still pay it.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UPS makes about $75 Billion per year in profit. This is a $25k increase after a few years of record inflation. There are 300k teamsters at UPS (including other jobs like package handler). If 1/3 of those employees are drivers, we're talking a 3% reduction in profits. They can afford it. (also worth nothing this $170k is also including all benefits). >this just means more people will get laid off. The threat of a stri…

UPS just over 100 billion revenue and 11.55 billion NET profit. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Parcel_Service

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Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#103
post #68
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Value delivered is meaningless, otherwise garbage collectors would be paid millions. What matters is scarcity of resources, be it commodities, or human skill!

In that case, we better keep scaring off newbies from coding

That's part of what guilds were for.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not subsidizing, it's paying. I don't subsidize a roofer when I hire them, I pay them. So your question is "why should poor people have to pay UPS drivers a decent wage?" Which I predict you would argue that you think this is too much money/healthcare/retirement for a delivery driver.

The market determines the "fair" wage of a delivery driver and it is not $175,000.

It's worth noting the parent to this comment rarely if ever provides an original comment (always replying with a short quip) and doesn't seem to engage in debate.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The studies you link to only consider effects of raising the federal minimum wage. While their conclusions may be valid, minimum wage workers only constitute a tiny fraction (~1%) of the labor market. It is unclear how well the studies' conclusions would extrapolate beyond minimum wage workers.

Is that min. wage workers working at the min. wage, or workers within the min. wage zone? Fed. min. wage means jack all when states have their own, which is what we should be looking at.

The first study looks at federal

> Increasing the federal minimum wage to $10.10 by July 1, 2015, would raise the wages of about 30 million workers, who would receive over $51 billion in additional wages over the phase-in period.

> Across the phase-in period of the minimum-wage increase, GDP would increase by roughly $32.6 billion, resulting in the creation of approximately 140,000 net new jobs (and 284,000 job years) over that period.

30 million out of 156 million workers is ~19.2% of the workforce. Not nothing and not to mention the knock-on effects it'll have for workers just barely above that

The second link specifically analyzes both localized and federal minimum wage increases and explicitly tackles the question "Are the Effects Bigger When More Workers are Affected?"

> The pattern of results for nominal consumption growth are similar—the direct spending response is somewhat stronger than when we do not control for the share of low-wage workers across locations, and there is evidence of a small but positive differential effect in areas with a higher share of low-wage workers

The third is a collection of research looking at wage increases in general, not just minimum wage (contrary to OP's comment)

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

speak for yourself. Local jobs (salary is monthly obviously): Hiring part time staff: - java script 6 people - Flutter Developer 3 Working hours: 8:00am -5:00pm can negotiate Salary : 300$-700$ Not sure what full-time hours are, I guess 996 or whatever.

Sorry, I don't understand your comment.

SWE does not pay very well everywhere.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't understand your comment.

SWE does not pay very well everywhere.

Oh I see, responding to my "we are beyond well compensated". Sorry. Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, I was definitely speaking from the U.S. perspective (typical american stereotype).

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#109
post #64

One fact many people don't realize is that in order to achieve broad-based wage growth, we will have to face GDP losses. This is because there are many businesses that depend on cheap labor to exist. As wages rise, these businesses will start to fail, reducing GDP. We should see this scenario (wage growth with stagnant or decreasing GDP) as a healthy adaptation. The danger is that politicians will react to the bad GD…

This is proven false. When more people are given more money, they spend more on average [0] https://www.epi.org/publication/bp357-federal-minimum-wage-i... [1] https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w25761/w257... This is why—despite what your econ 101 models might lead you to believe—modern, data-driven economic research suggests that increases in the minimum wage almost always lead to increased GDP. Worth…

If that’s true why not raise the minimum wage to 30$? Why not 100$?

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever loaded or unloaded a truck? It's the definition of difficult. Do you have things shipped to your house? I think most people would consider that essential in 2023.

> Have you ever loaded or unloaded a truck? yes, but whether I've done substantial amounts of manual labor in past lives isn't really that relevant. Of course, you might be sitting in your chair and think "that looks really difficult", and that'd be a fair observation for someone who hasn't worked in the trades. > It's the definition of difficult. Difficult like "hard work", or difficult like "curing cancer"? Loading…

> Of course, you might be sitting in your chair and think "that looks really difficult"

I have family who work for UPS (hell my friend since Kindegarten had a mom who retired out of UPS) and I have a brother who throws bags for Southwest. It takes a toll on the body. It's difficult. Full stop. This doesn't invalidate the varied difficulties in other professions. Sheesh.

> Yes, of course, but I still wouldn't consider a UPS delivery essential,

Delivery in aggregate is essential, which is the gracious interpretation. I would pay whatever to get my drugs delivered, because without it I die.

I'm not sure what creating strawmen, in response to someone's earnest sentiment, does for the conversation.

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