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UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

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Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#91
post #88
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three reasons. (1) I can afford it. (2) The increase in price and latency will probably result in my ordering less stuff. (3) I doubt that any company is going to allocate a substantial portion of their profits without raising prices. If it’s between raising prices, which I can afford, and people who do difficult jobs I depend on not having an easier, fairer life, then I’ll choose the raised prices.

UPS has a lot of fixed costs and doing less business could hurt them more than making less profits. They have to start paying higher wages now because of the deal they made. Their customers likely can't absorb higher prices as quickly and like you point out will cause a decrease in business as people ship less. It's a balance for UPS and it very likely isn't "just raise prices to match".

I suspect that UPS has a large contingency of MBAs who are better qualified at striking that balance than I am, which partially explains why I don't work there and why they haven't asked my advice on the matter.

I can only control the part of the transaction that originates from me. My commitment is to seek out the solution that seems, to my level of understanding and investigation, to result in the fairest treatment of workers given my lack of price sensitivity.

To do anything less is to give in to capitalist nihilism. It's tempting, but I'm not there yet, personally.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want back pain and constant work for 10 hours? I don’t. And I did make way more. But keep in mind that physical labor jobs are continuous work and hard on the body. As a swe I could work an hour, go for a walk to think, work another 2 hours, play ping pong with the PM while we discuss something, and enjoy multiples in RSUs. Just saying.

Most of the time drivers are.. driving. And the drivers have hand carts for larger or heavier items (which still have significant limits), and most packages are the size of a hard cover book. So, really, almost all of the job is driving with occasional chances to stretch your legs and deliver a small package. And the job is average of about 43 hours a week (they have very exact data on this), which is probably less t…

Did a google search for ups driver downsides and literally every result is “I have chronic back pain” and a workers compensation for physical injuries.

I’m sure there are downsides to swe but I’ve met swe/tech people who are 65+ and super sharp and innovative.

Have you ever met a 65 yo UPS driver? Most drivers seem young.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#93
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need for dramatic responses. If you JUST want money you can go make more in the trades. For the work we do as software engineers we are beyond well compensated.

speak for yourself. Local jobs (salary is monthly obviously): Hiring part time staff: - java script 6 people - Flutter Developer 3 Working hours: 8:00am -5:00pm can negotiate Salary : 300$-700$ Not sure what full-time hours are, I guess 996 or whatever.

Sorry, I don't understand your comment.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not subsidizing, it's paying. I don't subsidize a roofer when I hire them, I pay them. So your question is "why should poor people have to pay UPS drivers a decent wage?" Which I predict you would argue that you think this is too much money/healthcare/retirement for a delivery driver.

The market determines the "fair" wage of a delivery driver and it is not $175,000.

It looks like ups have decided that they want to pay their drivers something in the region of $175,000 in order to do their business though.

If they didn’t want to pay that then they could pay less but then those drivers might not think that’s fair and then go work for someone else, it might not be for $175k but it’s their choice at that point.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#95
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is proven false. When more people are given more money, they spend more on average [0] https://www.epi.org/publication/bp357-federal-minimum-wage-i... [1] https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w25761/w257... This is why—despite what your econ 101 models might lead you to believe—modern, data-driven economic research suggests that increases in the minimum wage almost always lead to increased GDP. Worth…

The studies you link to only consider effects of raising the federal minimum wage. While their conclusions may be valid, minimum wage workers only constitute a tiny fraction (~1%) of the labor market. It is unclear how well the studies' conclusions would extrapolate beyond minimum wage workers.

Is that min. wage workers working at the min. wage, or workers within the min. wage zone?

Fed. min. wage means jack all when states have their own, which is what we should be looking at.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#96

One fact many people don't realize is that in order to achieve broad-based wage growth, we will have to face GDP losses. This is because there are many businesses that depend on cheap labor to exist. As wages rise, these businesses will start to fail, reducing GDP. We should see this scenario (wage growth with stagnant or decreasing GDP) as a healthy adaptation. The danger is that politicians will react to the bad GD…

Yup. Few people talk about fair wage rebalancing as a driver of inflation, but it's inevitable if the bulk of wage growth goes disproportionately to low earners who produce widely consumed goods/services, whose prices were deflated due to low wages. As an extreme example, suppose all farmers were unpaid slaves. Slavery gets outlawed, and farmers now get paid. Food prices rise dramatically, resulting in massive inflat…

But what if those prices weren't deflated at all by the low wages? What if instead of passing their low costs onto the consumer, businesses were just pocketing the difference instead, because prices weren't really based upon the costs to produce the good/service, but on the consumers' ability to pay. In other words, raising wages would have little to no affect on prices.

I'm describing a non-competitive market, which of course also describes the majority of the American economy today.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#97
post #81
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three reasons. (1) I can afford it. (2) The increase in price and latency will probably result in my ordering less stuff. (3) I doubt that any company is going to allocate a substantial portion of their profits without raising prices. If it’s between raising prices, which I can afford, and people who do difficult jobs I depend on not having an easier, fairer life, then I’ll choose the raised prices.

> The increase in price and latency will probably result in my ordering less stuff. No, you just stated your generous intent. You have to order the same amount in order to properly support the UPS driver. Ordering less stuff will reduce the demand for UPS drivers, causing some to be fired. You have now harmed UPS drivers, treating them unfairly.

I’m not so self centered as to think my personal consumption has any particular impact on the demand for UPS drivers.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#98
post #97
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The increase in price and latency will probably result in my ordering less stuff. No, you just stated your generous intent. You have to order the same amount in order to properly support the UPS driver. Ordering less stuff will reduce the demand for UPS drivers, causing some to be fired. You have now harmed UPS drivers, treating them unfairly.

I’m not so self centered as to think my personal consumption has any particular impact on the demand for UPS drivers.

[deleted]

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#99

In Belgium average tech job salary is 36K to 87K EUR/year (from this source [1], it's just one source but it's just to back up my experience, also it really leans much more to the 36K, 87K sounds like too much), before taxes It's mind boggling how much higher salaries in the US are. [1] https://www.paylab.com/be/salaryinfo/information-technology?...

That total compensation figure includes both salary and benefits (healthcare, retirement income, etc.) before taxes. A family healthcare plan could have an annual employer cost of $25k or more, plus the employee contribution.

UPS provides a breakdown for the previous $145k figure here: https://about.ups.com/us/en/our-company/great-employer/real-...

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#100

One fact many people don't realize is that in order to achieve broad-based wage growth, we will have to face GDP losses. This is because there are many businesses that depend on cheap labor to exist. As wages rise, these businesses will start to fail, reducing GDP. We should see this scenario (wage growth with stagnant or decreasing GDP) as a healthy adaptation. The danger is that politicians will react to the bad GD…

> One fact many people don't realize is that in order to achieve broad-based wage growth, we will have to face GDP losses. This is because there are many businesses that depend on cheap labor to exist. As wages rise, these businesses will start to fail, reducing GDP. > We should see this scenario (wage growth with stagnant or decreasing GDP) as a healthy adaptation. The danger is that politicians will react to the ba…

The incentive is we need e-commerce and packages delivered to the last mile

Apparently there’s enough money there to pay for the merchandise and the delivery driver

Compare against the cost of running physical retail operations and getting people through the door - the people have voted with their wallets

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