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What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

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Re: What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

#141

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

silisili wrote: post #79
ehnto wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question, is it possible childcare facilities are being extortionate, or is it generally a low margin industry? There are a lot of costs increasing that exceed inflation and frankly, exceed fair value exchange, but many of us are caught between a rock and a hard place. Rent is a great example, cars are another. These things aren't true universally, and it seems other countries are able to provide higher quali…

See other comment I'd made here. In my lifetime, 'daycare' on the whole has went from a favor or job for some teenager, to a viable profession. Today, strict regulations and cost of compliance and well, wages to pay the employees contribute to the exorbitant costs.

It utterly absurd that childcare has become a certified industry.

If any reasonable person were to take a look at the fossil record, they’d immediately be struck by the dearth certificate carrying mammals.

Nay! Childcare qualifications are the trophy of evolutionary maladaption.

Re: What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

#142

Post by HideousKojima »

midoridensha wrote: post #102
HideousKojima wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how your parents feel about your attitude, lucky for you they didn't share it.

I'm going to assume that you don't work, for instance, as a schoolteacher (probably a safe assumption on this site). How do you think your childhood teachers feel about your attitude (of not being interested in going into the teaching profession)? Lucky for you that they didn't share it, right? How about working in local government, as a mayor or alderman for instance? Did you ever do that? Lucky for you that someone…

None of those other jobs not being filled would have literally kept me from existing, so the comparison seems strange to me. Yes I'm glad someone became a school teacher to teach me, but my not having the same interest doesn't make universal education of young children impossible, only a small percentage of the population needs to teach to enable that. Same for local government and most other jobs.

My parents forgoing having children, however, literally makes my existence impossible. And practiced on a society-wide level it ultimately leads to the extinction of the human race. Anyone who thinks that humans are better off pursuing their own fulfillment and enjoyment out of life instead of bearing and raising children is some combination of hedonist, nihilist, and misanthrope. And anyone who promotes such views should be shamed for what they are.

Re: What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

#143

Post by AnimalMuppet »

DeathArrow wrote: post #118
asimovfan wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Building better startups. CTO, Consultant & Recruiter. Over 50 IPOs/Exits incl. Palantir, Fiverr, Okta, Elastic, BrightBytes (aq. Google)" I would assume because you had massive amounts of money you could treat raising a child like a recreational activity.. and even then i am betting there is a lot of pink glasses looking in the past involved

I am much less wealthy than him and I think the same. Not all things in life are about money. I'd conjecture that there are more important things than money in life.

"Money is like gas on a road trip. You don't want to run out of gas on the trip. But you aren't doing a tour of gas stations."

Quoting from memory, so it may not be word for word. And I forget who I stole it from, but plausibly it was someone here. If so, sorry I don't have the source handy to be able to give you proper credit.

But, yeah. I agree with the parent. Money matters, but it's not what matters most. If money is your bottom line, then you are impoverished in a way that more money cannot fix.

Re: What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

#144

Post by FeloniousHam »

silisili wrote: post #79
ehnto wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question, is it possible childcare facilities are being extortionate, or is it generally a low margin industry? There are a lot of costs increasing that exceed inflation and frankly, exceed fair value exchange, but many of us are caught between a rock and a hard place. Rent is a great example, cars are another. These things aren't true universally, and it seems other countries are able to provide higher quali…

See other comment I'd made here. In my lifetime, 'daycare' on the whole has went from a favor or job for some teenager, to a viable profession. Today, strict regulations and cost of compliance and well, wages to pay the employees contribute to the exorbitant costs.

NPR had a short piece on the "broken market" aspect:

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/06/1186154271/why-parents-daycar...

Re: What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

#145

Post by aziaziazi »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #97
aziaziazi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comparaison is very strange: less population means less consumption, which is highly correlated with GHG emissions. A drastic reduction could cause serious short term issues for humanity (not for any other form of life) but were not here at all, curves are stabilizing around 2kids. You shouldn't be afraid to let go of the gas pedal on the freeway, the car won't stop straight away. Especially if your speed is exp…

The issue is that retirement systems are built on a certain assumption of the population pyramid. This will cause very serious political and societal strife as the retired will largely have more political and financial power and the few young will be (attempted) to be bled dry to maintain the system

> a certain assumption of the population pyramid

What is this assumption? The pyramid should look like… a pyramid? Don’t you see the elephant in the room: the population can’t infinitely grow on a finite universe.

GDP, dept, income… anything that is virtual can grow as long as you find a way to describe and write them. Ressources and space can be optimized within the boundary of what the known science let us do and what the humans tolerate.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love a future with 100s Billions humans eating delicious and healthy meals made of pure fusion energy in a Saturn orbit cafè. Let’s find out solutions of the problems caused by the current demography before increasing it, otherwise it’s betting our descents future on the retirement system.

Re: What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

#146

Post by asimovfan »

awb wrote: post #140
asimovfan wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Building better startups. CTO, Consultant & Recruiter. Over 50 IPOs/Exits incl. Palantir, Fiverr, Okta, Elastic, BrightBytes (aq. Google)" I would assume because you had massive amounts of money you could treat raising a child like a recreational activity.. and even then i am betting there is a lot of pink glasses looking in the past involved

Those assumptions are incorrect. Ever since I can remember as a little kid I wanted to be a Dad. My first big success came after my last child was born. When my first child was born I had just been laid off and was struggling to make ends meet. My highs in business aren’t even close to my highs as a Dad. Everyone’s experiences are different and true to them. I’m not trying to tell you that your experience or ideas of…

I think you turned it into something philosophical about your "highs" but I was talking about the fact about simply how hard it is to look after a child, and how much drudgery and going crazy it involves

this is why i also said having massive amounts of money helps make it one treat it like a recreational activity, like having someone to help clean the house, cook etc

Re: What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

#147

Post by asimovfan »

DeathArrow wrote: post #119
asimovfan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument does not invalidate the original comment. I think my parents were stupid to have me and could have enjoyed their life better. I think i had two of the top 10 parents worldwide but still, it was a decision made with naivety and stupidity of youth.

Judging only by your comments, I might be tempted to agree. But your parents didn't have a crystal ball at the time they conceived you, so I disagree.

They should have known this was a possibility

Re: What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

#148

Post by aziaziazi »

oerdier wrote: post #84
Terr_ wrote: post #3

> No one really knows why birth rates are dropping so fast. [...] Many people have theories but if you critically examine them they fall apart. > [#1] People do not have money for kids. [#2] The Government isn’t Providing pro-natal policies. [#3] This is happening only in societies that are not religious. [#4] Women are working and not having kids. That seems like an incomplete list. For example, how about this one:…

I'm not having kids because I expect the world they would live in by the time they would be adults will be too dystopian. Even more dystopian than it is already. I opine that we humans increasingly shape our living situation such that it causes friction with our nature, our primitive psychology and biology. This friction causes increasing unhappiness. When I first realized this in my early twenties I was able to vast…

> I consider it selfish to the degree of evil to have children

(How) Do you communicate this consideration with people that made children recently?

I have the same feeling but humans have a strong paternal/maternal instinct (which is great), conversation suffers as a result.

Re: What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

#149

Post by marssaxman »

DeathArrow wrote: post #111
defrost wrote: post #39

Between four and six billion humans seems like a good target. There were only 2.5 billion in 1950, since then automation has advanced leaps and bounds meaning an advanced lifestyle with fewer workers and less resource drain is entirely possible with a more sustainable population size.

>Between four and six billion humans seems like a good target. How do you intend to get rid of the surplus?

We all die eventually, more than a hundred of us every minute. If you want a smaller human population on Earth, there's no need for anything nefarious; just persuade people to lower their fertility rate, then wait a while.

Re: What Will the World Look Like with Less Babies?

#150

Post by RhysU »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #136
RhysU wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> avoid man-made degeneracies will be extremely difficult or impossible in a matter of decades So move now to somewhere you expect to be long-term viable before the crunch...?

easier said than done; you don't get to shop around for citizenship. it's not like you can just get permanent residency most places by showing up. even with points-based systems like Australia and Canada the level of effort is high and often not guaranteed.

If the alternative is that unsavory, just show up. It works for literally millions of people.
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