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Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

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Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#481

Post by joezydeco »

peatmoss wrote: post #201
AvAn12 wrote: post #9

Joel Spolesky has made this very point many times in the past: "Private offices with doors that close were absolutely required and not open to negotiation." I work on a Data Sci team that moved to an open floor plan in 2018. What happened? Anyone who needed to work intensively on a project would work from home instead of in the office.

To me it beggars belief that companies spend so much on humans only to put them in an environment where it’s impossible to concentrate. I reckon at some point someone will figure out that the physical environment can be modified to make knowledge workers more productive, and start walloping their competition. I am on a distributed team with no in-person interaction, and I love commuting even though I don’t see anyone…

Because we just came out of two or three decades of Google and Yahoo offices splashed across the business pages, filled with bean bags and beer taps and foosball tables, making us all think that these playgrounds created massive streams of revenue for their companies.

Turns out, it was just advertising that made the cash all along. The silly "collaborative" environment had nothing to do with it.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#482

Post by solardev »

commandlinefan wrote: post #381
rqtwteye wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"To me it beggars belief that companies spend so much on humans only to put them in an environment where it’s impossible to concentrate." But "collaboration"....

Those hallway conversations where the real magic happens, man.

At least you have hallways, man. Our collaboration happens in the space between desks where the power strips go. It's not so bad if we reorient the monitors just right so they don't hit our heads.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#483

Post by Analemma_ »

peatmoss wrote: post #201
AvAn12 wrote: post #9

Joel Spolesky has made this very point many times in the past: "Private offices with doors that close were absolutely required and not open to negotiation." I work on a Data Sci team that moved to an open floor plan in 2018. What happened? Anyone who needed to work intensively on a project would work from home instead of in the office.

To me it beggars belief that companies spend so much on humans only to put them in an environment where it’s impossible to concentrate. I reckon at some point someone will figure out that the physical environment can be modified to make knowledge workers more productive, and start walloping their competition. I am on a distributed team with no in-person interaction, and I love commuting even though I don’t see anyone…

Microsoft used to do this. Famously, they had private offices for a long time while all the competition was open-office plans. They've scaled this way back in recent years though (to much complaining, albeit totally ignored, from employees). Whether this means the brainworms got to them too or they actually have the numbers to prove that private offices aren't worth the expense, I don't know.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#484

Post by mrguyorama »

bko wrote: post #374
steveBK123 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite story on this thread is that during the hybrid period, GS CEO threw a fit when out in the Hamptons because some analyst (fairly junior role almost at the bottom) had the balls to go introduce themselves during a workday lunch at a restaurant. He couldn't articulate a specific, valid complaint like "I was out at a client lunch and they were goofing off" or "I was on a vacation day while they were supposed…

Why are you pretending this analyst is the same or even should have the same affordances as the CEO? You might be shocked to find out the CEO even gets paid more! Most people come up through the ranks and you can bet the CEO was one time an analyst with a demanding boss. After decades of work he made it to boss. You see this everywhere where you move up the ranks and things get better. That's the apprentice deal for…

>can bet the CEO was one time an analyst with a demanding boss.

Executives have not been promoted into their jobs since the 50s.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#485

Post by regularfry »

jonhohle wrote: post #181
btbuildem wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't. The push for open-plan spaces was motivated by cost-cutting. Layouts with many closed offices would cost far more to build, and take up more square footage to host the same number of employees. At a time where savvy businesses have dropped their commercial leases / gone full remote, and the more conservative / less accepting of change ones are left holding the bag, I would not expect anyone to make big inve…

There have been many studies that have shown that decreased worker productivity and increased sick leave negate any cost savings from open floor plans. Their only benefit is that the my look cool, especially when recruiting junior employees. https://www.fastcompany.com/90285582/everyone-hates-open-pla...

Yeah, but it comes out of a different budget, if it's costed for at all; and if it's noticed it's blamed on workshy employees, not a tactical error by management.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#487

Post by the_gipsy »

IKantRead wrote: post #450
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

I suspect many people on HN have never had a proper office with a door. While I do agree with your overall premise, having had offices at multiple roles over my career, it is a major improvement over cubicles and open office. Having a space to work in complete, uninterrupted quiet is wonderful. The simple social signal of the door being opened or close implying availability to chat works great to balancing heads down…

Exactly! I used to work at a place where we had a proper office for each team, about 2-4 people in each room per day because WFH was a (real) option.

I actually enjoyed going to that office because it was very quiet and I didn't have a proper workspace at home. My commute was ~30mins with a motorcycle. Yes, sometimes the A/C or the lighting must be compromised with other coworkers, but that's still okay if you get to socialize in exchange.

The major aspect was obviously noise. But I also felt dignified in that office. It was not status like C-Suite offices, just feeling a nice environment instead of being crammed in a chicken coop.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#488

Post by supergeek133 »

steveBK123 wrote: post #69
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. Sure, these guys might go into the office but they do so from their pied-a-terre / 3rd home / whatever within a 5 minute chauffeured drive. They do this while maintaining a nearby suburban/exurban estate and maybe a lake/beach/ski houses where they spend th…

This is actually a decent take.

Most of our C-Suite doesn't live near an office. Or, to be specific WE MOVED HQ to where they wanted to live.

We have other VPs and whatnot who live not near an office, or have winter/summer homes they go back and forth from.

Meanwhile our mandatory "3 days a week in the office" starts September.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#489

Post by pnt12 »

charcircuit wrote: post #449
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pair programming is also easier. Today I pair programmed with a junior engineer across the country, he was in his own 21x9 setup, with his colour scheme, and I was on my laptop at the office with my light theme. It was perfect.

All of that would be possible in person, excluding doing it across the country. Being in person also reduces the friction in junior engineers asking you to pair program with them.

Senior: let's pair on this.

Junior: sure.

Slightly easier than traveling half a country!

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#490

Post by ibejoeb »

velosol wrote: post #477
ibejoeb wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you. But a lot of people still want to live in the city and not go to the office. So, I'm suggesting that, for that cohort, dedicated private offices might be compelling. It means that you probably have a short commute; you can reclaim space in your home that might have been used for work; still live in city and have access to the social offerings there; and that you retain your privacy, and potentially have…

Higher end 'luxury' apartment buildings are frequently offering FCFS hoteling spaces and also rentable-as-you-need locking private spaces in the building as well as the modern phone booths in various parts of the buildings. If you have the income and that fits your desires you can have the city life and WFthe building you live in.

That would be a great amenity.
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