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Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

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Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#441

Post by Jcampuzano2 »

rqtwteye wrote: post #295
Roark66 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. Exactly. I've been working 100% from home since 2017 (3 years before covid). I'd rather take a 50% paycut than go back to the office. Don't get me wrong. I did enjoy my life when I lived 15 min walk /5 min on a bike, from my job in a city. Before I got tha…

" I'd rather take a 50% paycut than go back to the office." People should stop saying this. Otherwise it will soon be the standard to take a serious paycut for WFH. .

This. Companies are already catching on to this and starting to use this as a reason to pay less.

In my latest performance review, my manager actually told he and other managers were being forced to ask the question "Do you consider WFH as part of your compensation" by HR/upper management to all his reports (including me).

I'm convinced this is in preparation to either lower salaries, or artificially lowering them by giving lower raises/bonuses to those who work from home since they are starting to call people back to office who aren't remote by title. Most people are back up to 3-days a week, even though 90% of them are very unhappy. I'm fully remote hence why he asked me this question and anyone else who is designated full remote.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#442

Post by throwaway290 »

fernandotakai wrote: post #386
webdood90 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the lines are typically drawn between introverts and extroverts, so it's unfair to generalize here. I work remote and we don't have an office near me, but I'd love to go back. My job is where I spend the majority of my life. I like to get to know the people I work with by socializing over lunch, after work social events, etc. It's how I meet people. Collaborating remotely also sucks. You miss out on a lot o…

i'm 100% an extrovert. i still prefer working from home. why? because i like having my own office, with a door that i can close. i like that i have my own setup, specifically designed by me so i can be as comfortable as possible. i love that i can stop work for 30min and just play with my dog or talk to my wife. oh, and i LOVE that i have privacy and i don't have someone looking at what i'm doing for 8h.

How horrible are those offices people talk about (I guess in US)? Is it really the norm that people look over your shoulder?

I like when it's quiet and private but I also like to come work from an office... Even though it's a basic small shared space and I literally work from my laptop (can't be bothered to hook up the screen etc). I do like not having to do it every day so I am free to come or not but I look forward to it usually. Or I may go out to that area for other reasons and just drop by.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#443

Post by Un1corn »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

My office is half an hour by foot from my house and yet I prefer to work from home exactly for this reason. Maybe in America where the commute can become ridiculous quickly it's a problem but here I just take an e-scooter if I don't want to walk. A better office would certainly make me come to the office more. But to be fair, even the CEO doesn't have his own office currently so I don't expect any of us to get one soon.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#444

Post by captainbland »

amluto wrote: post #368
captainbland wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I think with hybrid, open offices make a lot of sense. Realistically you want to be able to hot desk because that's where the cost savings are made in a hybrid situation. You sort of fractional-reserve your office space. Of course it works only so long as nobody calls an in-person all hands. The in-office days are social collaboration days so it doesn't make sense to keep people in separate boxes for the…

No, thanks. If you want happy productive desk workers, give them their own desks, their own shelves, and possibly even their own blackboards. Even ignoring increased happiness, this enables giving employees their own tools: keyboards, chairs, monitors, workstations, tea, oscilloscopes, papers, etc.

Again we're talking about a hybrid situation here where typically the employee is likely to be working from home more than they're in the office. I think what you're suggesting makes sense for 3+ days a week in office situations though but 2 days or less and it starts to get tenuous. And for me I wouldn't want to go in any more than 2 days a week so they can keep the permanent desk imo.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#445

Post by gureddio »

Roark66 wrote: post #244
steveBK123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. Sure, these guys might go into the office but they do so from their pied-a-terre / 3rd home / whatever within a 5 minute chauffeured drive. They do this while maintaining a nearby suburban/exurban estate and maybe a lake/beach/ski houses where they spend th…

>My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. Exactly. I've been working 100% from home since 2017 (3 years before covid). I'd rather take a 50% paycut than go back to the office. Don't get me wrong. I did enjoy my life when I lived 15 min walk /5 min on a bike, from my job in a city. Before I got tha…

I feel like in the UK, some of us got WFH in lieu of a pay rise

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#446

Post by Simulacra »

flandish wrote: post #215
steveBK123 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite story on this thread is that during the hybrid period, GS CEO threw a fit when out in the Hamptons because some analyst (fairly junior role almost at the bottom) had the balls to go introduce themselves during a workday lunch at a restaurant. He couldn't articulate a specific, valid complaint like "I was out at a client lunch and they were goofing off" or "I was on a vacation day while they were supposed…

This example is a stark reminder that the complaints are most often not about details but about class . The CEO was upset others were allowed to perform as if they were of the same class. It’s always class when one boils it down, imho.

and power. Being flexible and away from the office, etc. means someone is not holding power over you, i.e. requiring you to work in the office.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#448

Post by tristor »

I've worked remotely since 2015. I have no intent of ever going back to the office. I actually enjoy working from the office occasionally, but it can't be a permanent thing for me, and giving me an office with a door and a short commute are not enough to make it matter. That makes it better, but not enough to change my mind.

It's really simple. My office at home is better than any corporate owned office could ever feasibly be. A major reason why is because it's /mine/, I have absolute and complete control over it, and basically no budget restrictions. My home office is /comfortable/, /relaxed/, and /nice/. None of which are things companies care about when they start putting numbers in spreadsheets, and even if they did care about, they'd have to standardize it. My home office is also /personal/, which a corporate office can never be.

I will /consider/ going back to the office when I get a 15m^2 space to myself with a locking door that closes, a window view, and a $30k/yr a budget to do whatever I want inside that office on top of world-class pay, and I can commute there in under 20 minutes. When all of those things are true, and only then, does it even become a consideration that is comparable to working from home permanently.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#449

Post by charcircuit »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #407
AlInGaP_Diode wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then you have the whole “oh, but, learning” as if it is simply impossible to part with knowledge via any medium other than a coworker’s breath hitting another’s eardrum. I find it a lot more effective to msg technical questions instead of talking as I can reread a dense statement to help internalize and can also reference it later. WFH is great for learning

Pair programming is also easier. Today I pair programmed with a junior engineer across the country, he was in his own 21x9 setup, with his colour scheme, and I was on my laptop at the office with my light theme. It was perfect.

All of that would be possible in person, excluding doing it across the country. Being in person also reduces the friction in junior engineers asking you to pair program with them.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#450

Post by IKantRead »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

I suspect many people on HN have never had a proper office with a door.

While I do agree with your overall premise, having had offices at multiple roles over my career, it is a major improvement over cubicles and open office.

Having a space to work in complete, uninterrupted quiet is wonderful. The simple social signal of the door being opened or close implying availability to chat works great to balancing heads down time and chat with colleagues time. Have a white board of your own that you can stare at throughout the course of a project, that evolves with discussions has not be replicated yet either remote or in a shared space.

You can also get pretty wild with customizing an office for comfort. I used to know many people that brought their own lighting in, completely solving the problem of constant overhead fluorescence. And brewing your coffee the way you like it in your own space in the afternoon is very refreshing.

Even given all that I'm sure many people would still prefer remote work (I would at this point), but I can image a fairly large number of people that would be very interested in a set up like this. It also mean your home is completely work free again.

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