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Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

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Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#241

Post by zer8k »

syndicatedjelly wrote: post #232
zer8k wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if they no longer had to work in a cube farm, A cube farm is massively preferable to open offices. I never want to go back to working in an office but I especially never want to go back to an open office. The mixture of seeming too available, loud people all over the place, zero privacy, etc were revolting to me.

[flagged]

I was responding to the comparison being offered. The reality is there are few companies that offer individual offices and a lot of real estate that exists for open offices. It's not a false dichotomy because by-and-large it is the dichotomy. The cube farms from 1990 were just converted to open offices by removing the barriers. To be honest, in my career in tech, I've never even seen a closed-office setup.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#242

Post by NetOpWibby »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #203
NetOpWibby wrote: post #138

For the first time in my life, I have space and energy to work on my fitness goals. I wouldn't be able to do that if I had to go into the office. Ironically, I moved to California because I was told we'd be working onsite...three years later and I _still_ don't have a badge because the back to office mandate never came. I use my lunch hour to workout because I can just eat at my desk. I wish I could afford a bigger h…

I've always been fit but when I was in the office, I understood why a lot of people weren't. Work + Commute + Daily exercise is a HUGE chunk of time. With remote, I simply exercise _during_ work with my home equipment, it's fantastic.

I could do the same thing too if I'm being honest. I'm at the point now where I wonder why I don't have residual income from a side business that doesn't require a lot of my time.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#243

Post by pc86 »

wombatpm wrote: post #137
mywittyname wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not both?

I had a boss who was a VP in sales. His philosophy was "On the days I go in late, I make up for it by leaving early".

This is pretty consistent with my experience with both salespeople and VPs regardless of department.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#244

Post by Roark66 »

steveBK123 wrote: post #69
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. Sure, these guys might go into the office but they do so from their pied-a-terre / 3rd home / whatever within a 5 minute chauffeured drive. They do this while maintaining a nearby suburban/exurban estate and maybe a lake/beach/ski houses where they spend th…

>My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility.

Exactly. I've been working 100% from home since 2017 (3 years before covid). I'd rather take a 50% paycut than go back to the office.

Don't get me wrong. I did enjoy my life when I lived 15 min walk /5 min on a bike, from my job in a city. Before I got that job and I had to commute for 20 min I enjoyed it too.

But WFH beats that by a mile. I can live wherever I want (where cost of living is a lot cheaper than central London). I can just go down to my kitchen and make myself proper food any time (although I still miss certain of my favourite restaurants). And most importantly, I get a lot more time to myself and I'm much more effective at my work.

There is no chance in hell people like me will "go back to the office". Furthermore, companies that recognised the benefits early are reaping the benefits. Even just one. Having an order of magnitude larger talent pool by not limiting themselves to people from one place.

In today's marker that is characterised by permanent skilled labour shortage I can't imagine stupidest way to shoot ones company in the foot than trying to force people to "get back to the office".

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#245

Post by spamizbad »

Hell is freezing over because holy crap I agree with Megan McArdle.

Pre-pandemic office life was pretty crummy: you had crowded, noisy open-plan spaces. Most employees sat at their desk, put on their headphones, and quietly plodded away until quitting time - leaving their desks not to collaborate but to service their basic biological needs.

Giving people quiet, private spaces that they can personalize would take much of the sting out of returning to the office.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#246

Post by criddell »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #92
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

Personally, the commute is secondary. I hate being at the office. The office could be right next door to me and I still wouldn't want to go. Offices are cold, sterile, mentally unstimulating environments of constant surveillance. I never want to go into another one ever again

That’s the benefit of having your own office — you can make it comfortable.

In mine I have music playing, I have a guitar for when I need to stop thinking about a problem, I have a bookshelf of books I love, I have a plant I care for, I have my own whiteboard, I have artwork, I have a balance board, and (fortunately) I have an amazing view. When I need a break, I can close my door to read, watch something, call a friend, or take a nap.

Now I don’t find myself watching videos, napping, or playing guitar all that often, but I don’t when I’m working from home either.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#247

Post by giraffe_lady »

heisnotanalien wrote: post #195

I love working from home as much as everyone else here (seemingly) but I don't think people are fully appreciating how damaging not talking to people in meat space is likely to be long-term. We are embodied/energetic creatures and that energy is not exchanging the same way online (sorry if that sounds woo but it's true!). More so for the younger people, let's not forgot some of whom have never worked with people much…

I simply do not get much if any of my human connection needs met by coworkers. I have a family, neighbors, close friends I see frequently and less close friends I see occasionally. A church, relationships based on volunteering, hobbies and interests, teens I mentor and their parents I shoot the shit with. Coworkers are so far down the list of priority socialization that my life isn't negatively affected by not interacting with them physically.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#248

Post by Zetice »

btbuildem wrote: post #131
Zetice wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all of this results in an office layout revolution that includes many individual offices opening into shared team spaces, I am 100% here for it.

It won't. The push for open-plan spaces was motivated by cost-cutting. Layouts with many closed offices would cost far more to build, and take up more square footage to host the same number of employees. At a time where savvy businesses have dropped their commercial leases / gone full remote, and the more conservative / less accepting of change ones are left holding the bag, I would not expect anyone to make big inve…

It's a common but incorrect belief that many small individual offices is a substantially more expensive buildout option.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#249

Post by tiborsaas »

mrbgty wrote: post #57
Zetice wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won’t work? How will these non-workers pay for things? They’ll have no choice but to work.

How will the company stay in business without workers? They'll have no choice...

There's always someone who's willing to work regardless of WFH policy. What would probably happen is that companies are lowering their standards of hiring.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#250

Post by hangonhn »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

> People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home

At my current job, there's something ironic about that. The people who never come back to the office despite being allowed to are also the people who live the closest to the office. (We have a big office that allows people to come back but is totally optional. Hotel desks for the entire office basically.) I asked one of them why he doesn't come in and he told me, "The reason I moved so close to the office in the first place is so I can minimize my commute. Now that I don't have to, why would I do the commute at all?"

I think some people are just completely dead set against commuting or even working from an office. Another coworker told me, "Do you know how great this is? I can do my laundry in between meetings."

From my experience, my employer's current situation is probably the most accommodating policy. If you want to work in an office, you can. If you don't, you don't have to. I do have coworkers who are actually suffering a bit from lack of interaction with other people but I think those people are starting to trickle back into the office for no other reason than for the socialization and interaction.

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