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Not Using Zoom

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Re: Not Using Zoom

#141

Post by _joel »

EGreg wrote: post #131
_joel wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STUN

I don't think you understand my question. STUN is only for setting up the connection. With Trickle ICE etc. But after that, who actually proxies the video that is being sent between the WebRTC endpoints? You need TURN servers for that! Without them, people behind a firewall wouldn't be able to actually receive any audio/video streams from Jitsi. So how would it work without TURN?

Probably by using public ones https://dev.to/aprogrammer22/list-of-free-stun-and-turn-serv...

Re: Not Using Zoom

#143

Post by notroger »

burkaman wrote: post #76
aparnabzoom wrote: post #52

Hi there, I'm the COO of Zoom. We currently do not use audio, video or chat content to train AI models and we would not do so without customer consent. Please see our blog https://blog.zoom.us/zooms-term-service-ai/

Hi there, I don't believe you, especially since you've misrepresented that blog post. It actually says: "we do not use audio, video, or chat content for training our models without customer consent." It explicitly says that you do use customer content to train your models. From the screenshot: "You are directing Zoom to access, process, and use your participants' inputs and AI-generated content for the purpose of Zoo…

Oh she knows. Prior to being COO she was Zoom’s lawyers: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/zooms-to...

Re: Not Using Zoom

#144

Post by tornato7 »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #128
tornato7 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can change the maxFullResolutionParticipants setting in config.js to fix this.

Will you walk my mom through that?

This is a setting that you change on the host that applies to all clients using that Jitsi server.

Re: Not Using Zoom

#145

Post by maldev »

Zoom already has multiple offerings with different privacy policies. For example Zoom.us (Zoom for US Government) vs Regular Zoom. Wouldn't be surprised if this comes later in different tiers of pricing and data privacy.

Re: Not Using Zoom

#146

Post by amelius »

lucideer wrote: post #99
amelius wrote: post #77

I feel like we are dangerously close to the situation where companies don't even put this in the ToS. "Better to ask for forgiveness than for permission." See also Uber, who broke the rules and got away with it, and in fact built their empire on top of breaking the law. We should not let companies get away with this. In fact, CEOs of such companies should face prison time. Otherwise it would be too easy to steal your…

> "Better to ask for forgiveness than for permission." Thankfully we're starting to see legislation being rolled out in a lot of areas with reasonably large penalties for this approach (e.g. 4% of the company's global revenue for the EU).

Like I mentioned, I don't think that fees are sufficient because you just steal your users' data, pay the fees, and if you go bankrupt you just use the data to start a new company.

Re: Not Using Zoom

#147

Post by nobody9999 »

michael_adams12 wrote: post #129

This is Michael Adams, Zoom’s CISO. I want to reiterate our thanks for your feedback and emphasize our continuing commitment to protecting our customers’ data as we make exciting improvements to Zoom products. At Zoom, we do not use customer audio, video, and chat to train our generative AI models without customer consent. You can learn more about enabling generative AI features, consent, and notice here: https://blo…

>At Zoom, we do not use customer audio, video, and chat to train our generative AI models without customer consent.

What is the mechanism you use for "customer consent"?

IIUC, you have a pop-up at call initiation for which you either provide "consent," or drop the call, with no option to deny consent and continue.

If that's correct, then your definition of "customer consent" doesn't comport with the broadly understood idea of consent. Rather, it's closer to "if you enter my store, you consent to spending at least USD$20. If you don't actually spend that much on our offerings, we will charge the balance as a fee," than to true consent.

That's not to say that Zoom shouldn't have the right to require such consent to use their service, but based on my understanding, the mechanism for obtaining such consent is coercive and exploitative.

Re: Not Using Zoom

#148

Post by jcoder »

aparnabzoom wrote: post #52

Hi there, I'm the COO of Zoom. We currently do not use audio, video or chat content to train AI models and we would not do so without customer consent. Please see our blog https://blog.zoom.us/zooms-term-service-ai/

“Customer consent” as in, accepting the TOS by continuing to use the product? Have some respect for the intelligence of your users. If you’re playing dirty lawyerball in HN comments you can’t be trusted to act in good faith.

Re: Not Using Zoom

#149

Post by kornhole »

Jitsi is great but has limitations. I use Nextcloud Talk. Nextcloud is self hosted and includes many apps that can be easily activated. Talk is full featured and includes mobile apps that allow people to call each other directly along with everything you would expect from a messenger. Federation with the 400K+ NC installations is WIP.
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