Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca • Hacker News Board

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#41

Post by zdragnar » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 4:16 PM UTC

RC_ITR wrote: post #3

Interesting this article primarily cites federal policies that have led to the current situation and then vilifies Democrats in Sacramento and Progressives in SF. No comment on the politics, just seems like an inconsistent and thin argument (probably one that has no business on HN). >San Francisco is under a federal injunction that bars officials from enforcing laws against camping or sleeping in public spaces as lon…

What makes SF unable to have enough shelter space? Why is their homeless population unusually large? Is it a spiral of consequences that feed each other?

https://www.sfhsa.org/services/financial-assistance/county-a....

Do cash payments help or hurt? Clearly, there are more than just federal policies at play. They have job and home placement programs, mental health and so forth. Are they understaffed or with limited opportunities, or does the cash payment act as a perverse incentive to keep people on the street?

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#42

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 4:16 PM UTC

evancox100 wrote: post #20

What I don’t understand is that if making it illegal to build whatever living structure you want on public land is “cruel and unusual punishment”, why is it still illegal to build the living structure of your choice on private land that you own? Isn’t such a law even more restrictive? How have we willingly ceded so much authority to bureaucratic busybodys who have nothing better to do than micromanage the size, shape…

> What I don’t understand is that if making it illegal to build whatever living structure you want on public land is “cruel and unusual punishment”, why is it still illegal to build the living structure of your choice on private land that you own

Your premise is wrong; making rhe first kind of law has not been ruled unconstitutional, only enforcing it when there is no available shelter for the homeless population.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#43

Post by kevingadd » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 4:16 PM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #21

anononaut wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you trust to put twenty billion dollars "somewhere else?"

The people that earn it. Cut taxes and put that money back in the people’s hands.

How does that solve the problem though? I certainly would be happy if my tax bill went down, but that money is being spent and a lot of it is spent on important things. Are you okay with just ignoring every problem that doesn't personally affect you? Or only this one in particular? I'm not seeing the dots connected here. You need to make at least a somewhat clear argument for how your proposed policy is sound instead of just pushing problems off on someone else.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#44

Post by s1artibartfast » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 4:16 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #11

slifin wrote: post #5

600k per year per person? With that amount of funding you may as well buy every homeless person a house

This strategy has in fact been tried in a few places and while it's not a cure-all, it seems to work pretty good.

Low income housing projects have been tried in the US too with mixed outcomes. My guess is that the Baseline social behavior and expectation is just lower in the US than in places like Taiwan or Singapore, where it is incredibly successful

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#45

Post by scarface_74 » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 4:17 PM UTC

hypeit wrote: post #15

Because the bay area is home to many extremely rich people who give absolutely nothing back to their communities, encourage rampant gentrification and generally despise poor people and advocate for anti-worker policies. Take a scroll through the likes of some of the famous VCs who constantly complain about SF's homelessness and crime. They tend to be more mask off far-right in their likes vs tweets (some will straigh…

And the so called libertarians begged for the government’s help when the banks they relied on were going under.

“There are no libertarians in bank runs”

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#46

Post by dontmobile » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

evancox100 wrote: post #20

What I don’t understand is that if making it illegal to build whatever living structure you want on public land is “cruel and unusual punishment”, why is it still illegal to build the living structure of your choice on private land that you own? Isn’t such a law even more restrictive? How have we willingly ceded so much authority to bureaucratic busybodys who have nothing better to do than micromanage the size, shape…

Deregulation has been getting introduced. ADUs have been approved and you can now do something called SB9 which if deployed to the maximum extent allows you to take a single property split it into two parcels and build two duplexes on each parcel.

That 4xs the amount of dwelling spaces per property in theory. But of course the capital and will for a Californian who owns property to go through with it is a different story.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#47

Post by fieldcny » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

WaxProlix wrote: post #18

gvb wrote: post #2

https://archive.ph/eDCri

Unrelated to the topic at hand, but in the last couple of days I've become completely unable to use the Archive. Infinite loops of CAPTCHAs and 429 Too Many Requests in console :( Really sad, it feels like I'm losing access to some really core, basic internet infrastructure.

You could always try paying for the subscriptions…

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#48

Post by kevingadd » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #40

tedivm wrote: post #30

I think it's important to note a couple of things. > The city of San Francisco released data last week showing that 55% of homeless individuals rejected shelter when offered it I think it's very important to understand why people turn down the beds. There are several reasons- * Shelters have very restricted hours, so if someone has a job that includes nights they likely can't use a shelter. A large number of homeless…

You missed the most common reason: * Drugs and alcohol are not allowed

Even if this is the most common reason, unless "most common" means 99%, there are still a bunch of people who can't take advantage of shelters through no fault of their own.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#49

Post by RC_ITR » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #41

RC_ITR wrote: post #3

Interesting this article primarily cites federal policies that have led to the current situation and then vilifies Democrats in Sacramento and Progressives in SF. No comment on the politics, just seems like an inconsistent and thin argument (probably one that has no business on HN). >San Francisco is under a federal injunction that bars officials from enforcing laws against camping or sleeping in public spaces as lon…

What makes SF unable to have enough shelter space? Why is their homeless population unusually large? Is it a spiral of consequences that feed each other? https://www.sfhsa.org/services/financial-assistance/county-a... . Do cash payments help or hurt? Clearly, there are more than just federal policies at play. They have job and home placement programs, mental health and so forth. Are they understaffed or with limited…

The biggest propaganda win of the century has been the following:

In a country with complete freedom of movement (and relatively cheap long-distance transportation), the mainstream has been convinced that homelessness is only caused by the communities where those people live.

It's the Federal government's historical role to serves as a social safety net, not mid-sized cities with 'live outside year round' weather.

Like what does SF 'fixing homelessness' even look like? I can tell you what it looks like at the Federal level.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#50

Post by rednerrus » Mon, Aug 07, 2023, 4:19 PM UTC

mindcandy wrote: post #14

> Since 2016 San Francisco’s homeless budget has ballooned to $672 million from $224 million, yet the number of homeless in shelters has increased by a mere 736. That equates to $609,000 in higher annual spending for each additional person in shelter. Where's the breakdown of where that $896K goes?

The homeless industrial complex.