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I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

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Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#511

Post by bsagdiyev »

ekianjo wrote: post #394
megablast wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. But this is true for every thing in the planet. Data modelling, computer programming, building, everything. Name something that the unusual is not more complicated and difficult to do. Why would anyone think that it would not be true for the health field?? I think the problem is people think health is magical and everything is known. Because they choose…

> I think the problem is people think health is magical and everything is known. The problem is most doctors have absolutely no humility and will never admit to not knowing something. I don't see that behavior among engineers.

Really? Because I see it a lot in "engineers" in tech. They're right, you're wrong and that's how it plays out.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#512

Post by taberiand »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #492
taberiand wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And much like software development, it will all soon be done by ChatGPT.

Local models integrated into EMR systems could be a great tool for doctors but not ChatGPT. I really don't recommend feeding confidential medical information into a corporation's computer. At least doctors are ethically obligated to maintain confidentiality.

To be clear, I'm just using ChatGPT as a (slightly tongue in cheek) shorthand for LLMs in general, but I do think there is a large potential for them within medicine.

They are so unreasonably effective for being, fundamentally, word predictors.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#514

Post by Aerbil313 »

sethammons wrote: post #509
taberiand wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And much like software development, it will all soon be done by ChatGPT.

ChatGPT correctly identified my wife's condition in a couple seconds when a dozen doctors failed to for over a decade. Less than half a percent of people suffer from this condition, but enough do that doctors should have thought about it. All I did was write down the symptoms and poof. It was actually really frustrating that doctors were mystified but this tech gave us a new (and ultimately correct) path of inquiry.…

Thanks, gonna keep this in mind!

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#515

Post by Aerbil313 »

Turskarama wrote: post #434
talonx wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add to that the fact that experience matters a lot too. The more variety of cases a doctor sees, the more the chances are that their diagnosis is going to be useful.

Yes and no, the more a doctor sees a particular diagnosis the less likely they are to consider anything else. Honestly of all the professions that could be enhanced by AI, medicine has the most to gain. An AI can remember a much larger data set than any human and look for correlations among many more dimensions.

The great thing is even LLMs who only take text input still can yield better results than doctors. Think about a healthcare system which utilizes transformers working on images etc.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#516

Post by mensetmanusman »

In our town a dentist was making bank pulling teeth of poor kids and collecting Medicaid checks.

Also post Covid a new dentist said I had built up 6 cavities, so I went somewhere else and they said it was maybe 1 but that if I did fluoride rinse it might just heal over the next year.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#517

Post by mensetmanusman »

kzrdude wrote: post #392
pfisherman wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that I think people need to understand is the distinction between science and the practice of medicine. The practice of medicine is not science. The practice of medicine can be informed by science - to a degree that is almost entirely up to the practitioner. ; but it remains more art than science. The distinction is similar to that between an aviation maintenance and aerospace engineering. Sometimes doctors…

Do doctors know this? We need to tell them they need to practice at the art, to get better at it.

HIPPA doesn’t allow it (yet?), you have to do it yourself.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#518

Post by Aerbil313 »

basisword wrote: post #164
Waterluvian wrote: post #47

My son when 3 had a fall and a few teeth were bent. Went to our local dentist who mostly had a wait and see opinion. But then calls a day later and says they’ve decided they should just come out. Two top front teeth. Would have no top front teeth for years. I went into engineer mode and while I acknowledged I didn’t have domain expertise, I asked questions and probed the whole situation. Very unsatisfactory, meanderi…

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

Modern healthcare is very bad at treating chronic illnesses. Symtomatic treatment is not a cure. I believe if people would live by these simple rules chronic diseases would be actually prevented and cured (in order of importance and effectiveness):

1. Don't mouthbreathe and don't overbreathe. See "Breath - The New Science of A Lost Art" by James Nestor for why and how.

2. Don't eat sugar, it's a chronic poison. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

3. Min. 1 hr of physical activity per day. Your body is not meant to sit all the time.

4. Avoid noise of the city life as much as you can. It leads to chronic stress and thus chronic diseases. Noise-cancelling earphones may help.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#519

Post by mensetmanusman »

Turskarama wrote: post #435
no_butterscotch wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much he said she said is the UK better than us with healthcare or not?!

It's better in that it's free, but it's been defunded so much that it's beginning to fall apart. Private healthcare is basically broken out the gate, public healthcare can be much better but it still does need to be funded.

I would say it’s been defunded relative to the expected pensioner to worker ratio.

Much of Europe went wild assuming that we would always have 5 to 7 workers per person retired to care for, and I won’t be surprised if we get down to 1 to 2 in the next 50 years.

That’s a type of system collapse people aren’t prepared for.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#520

Post by Aerbil313 »

entropicgravity wrote: post #107

If you have an ongoing problem of plaque/tartar build up on your teeth then this BBC article[1] could be a life changer for you. It was for me. After a year of doing it right my gums are now close to perfect. I notice though that neither my hygenist's or my dentist's office has been handing out information about this approach. Not good for business perhaps. I believe this technique works via abrasion so toothpaste is…

> my gums are now close to perfect.

Do you mean that your gums were shrinked and then growed back to their full height? Or that they were sore and not anymore?

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