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I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

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Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#411
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that I think people need to understand is the distinction between science and the practice of medicine. The practice of medicine is not science. The practice of medicine can be informed by science - to a degree that is almost entirely up to the practitioner. ; but it remains more art than science. The distinction is similar to that between an aviation maintenance and aerospace engineering. Sometimes doctors…

Doctors are technicians. Technicians with a large toolkit, but technicians nonetheless. When you compare their behaviors to IT it all starts making sense.

Add to that the fact that experience matters a lot too. The more variety of cases a doctor sees, the more the chances are that their diagnosis is going to be useful.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

"The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. " I was so pissed by this I created a way to find experts. People that actually studied the issue, have actual publish papers on the topic. What I found was no one cared. No one wanted "experts" - they want a specialist that is in their network and close. Example of searching for mohs surgury. https://www.opendoctor.io/research/?research_papers=mohs&zip..…

awesome stuff, how hard would it be to expand to other countries? I'm from Australia :)

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#413
My sister completed a 3 year dentist technician education, only to decide that she doesn't want to work in the field. Why? Because of what you just described. Immoral dentists proposing the most expensive procedure regardless of the aesthetics or outcome, to milk insurance money. Rough framing of situation: same story you told, but imagine it's a young girl, that will be insecure for life because of a dentist's greed. He removed two front teeth and installed a bridge, which he orders from dentist technicians - that immediately observe from the order details how deeply immoral the procedure is.

The problem is that if dentis technicians speak up against a dentist, it usually means they lose a customer. Dentists will find someone else to fill their order. It's basically a mafia.

This happens in other fields as well, such as: shoving expensive pills down depressed teens throats to milk insurance money, then gain power of attorney over said kid to feed him 16 pills instead of one (true story, friend's son, named Bobby, would have otherwise recovered naturally, but is simply not himself anymore).

Here are a few problems:

* Money inventivizes immortal practices. Bigger (albeit unnecessary) procedure with lifetime consequences, but more insurance money. Or just money if you don't have insurance.

* The craft is polluted by bad role models. Normalizing said practices, effectively absolving young professionals from accountability.

* Flawed definition of good mentorship. Young Professionals need mentors that are a figurative handrail to honesty, and acceptance of feedback from peers. i.e. when dentists get remarks from dentist technicians that said procedure is unnecessary.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#414
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok sample of N = 1, but here it goes. Flossing daily was the single thing that imroved my dental hygiene more than anything else. Brushing, mouthwash, fluoride treatment, gum laser treatment, regular dentist visits, nothing worked. Still had bleeding gum, pain here and there, bad smell, unstopabble tooth decay. In my mid 20-s I started flossing daily (even multiple times when I feel like food is stuck). Really my mou…

Have you tried a waterpik? Considering an investment there myself.

I'll toss in that floss has done practically nothing for me for decades. Getting a waterpik immediately made a huge improvement in just about everything.

(I can't speak to plaque because I can't really measure it myself. But dentists seem to think I'm flossing quite well now. ha.)

I get so much more food junk out of my teeth with the waterpik. Floss never has and still never does remove much of it - even flossing, mouthwashing, and waiting until morning to try the waterpik consistently finds junk that isn't there if I waterpik. I still keep floss handy for getting truly wedged stuff out (it can provide much more force), but it's worthless for me otherwise.

Start out with a cheap one, and start both gentle and pointed across your teeth, not into your gums. It can be much too harsh when you start out. And very clearly mouths vary a lot, so if it doesn't work, it doesn't work - hence, start cheap.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rich enough so you can afford personal concierge A few minutes research suggests it's not that expensive. (As little as ~2000/year).

For most people, that's expensive.

No, it isn't. Most people pay about that much for their cable. For the bottom 20 percent, yes, it is a budget-buster.

However, that is beside the point. Believe me, I hate explaining simple, simple things--but the person I was responding to is probably comfortably middle or upper-middle class and could afford a miserable 2000/year on a doctor. He doesn't have to become "rich enough", and almost 100 percent of the people in this thread don't have to either.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now imagine doing this on Canadian healthcare, having to wait months or years for each appointment, and nowadays they try to talk you into MAID to save resources…

I live in the US. I am a software engineer making more than a half a million annually. I have access to tremendous resources and can advocate for myself and my family. I live in a college town because of my wife's career. It is not a big city, but is also not rural middle of nowhere. Getting a routine gynecological appointment for my wife any time in the next six months is impossible. I gave up on trying to get an ap…

Preach.

I wanted to get a sleep study done to get to the bottom of my occasional insomnia. My PCP at the time put in the pulmonologist referral (because this hospital network required a referral to get a sleep study done, which is insane in its own right, but that's neither here nor there).

This was in January. His next available appointment? March! For a friggin sleep study! And I have a HDHP + HSA and was going to pay full boat!

(He also prescribed me with an antipsychotic that can double as a sleep aid at low dosages, which I didn't take because five minutes of research into it made it obvious that taking that for extended periods of time is bad news bears. I stopped seeing him after that.)

(For those looking for answers like I was, I eventually stumbled upon Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia, or CBT-I. It's essentially a rigid sliding window-style sleep schedule plus challenge therapy to make you rethink how you approach sleep. I've been doing this for six months now and it has been transformational. Best part? No meds!)

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I’m not a conspiracy nut. I believe in listening to experts (but ultimately making an informed decision). I believe in modern medicine. But that experience shook me and forever changed my trust in the dental industry. Ask anybody who’s experienced a “chronic” illness about the “experts” and they’ll tell you a tale or two. The experts are great until they have a case that is unusual. The don’t have the time or know…

One thing that I think people need to understand is the distinction between science and the practice of medicine. The practice of medicine is not science. The practice of medicine can be informed by science - to a degree that is almost entirely up to the practitioner. ; but it remains more art than science. The distinction is similar to that between an aviation maintenance and aerospace engineering. Sometimes doctors…

For sure. A friend of mine went to med school and chose the general practitioner path. One time I was hanging out at their place, so I leafed through some of the GP journals on the coffee table. It seemed much more akin to car repair than to science.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> It doesn't really matter if you see the best doctor in the world, if they can't spent the time and money running the tests you need you're not going to get a good diagnosis. Everyone in the UK should get to experience a private consultation just once. The difference between the rushed 10mins you get with the NHS and the considered 30mins you get private is amazing. You leave feeling like you’ve been taken care of…

I believe the NHS is seriously under-funded, the Tory government is responsible, and healthcare is suffering as a result. However, I do want to provide an anecdote to illustrate that private healthcare is not perfect. I had some persistent pain in my foot. Realized I wouldn't get anywhere with the NHS so I went private. The person I saw had an excellent manner. They suggested some fairly gnarly surgery. Said I should…

Long ago I broke my collarbone in a bicycle race. It's a common injury in the sport so I got a referral to a surgeon from another racer who'd had a fracture of his own surgically repaired. To my surprise, she took a very conservative course of action. The clavicle had broken pretty cleanly in half and the outer half had settled in about an inch inward underneath the inner half. You might think that would be a good candidate for surgery so the bone could have been moved back into the old position with the help of a plate. But she thought it would be best if I came back in a few weeks and see if it had healed on its own. To my amazement, it did heal so that now I have a weird knob in my clavicle but the bone feels as strong as the never broken side. The recovery was tough though and took years. At times I wished I'd had it surgically repaired but now I admire my surgeon's restraint. She correctly diagnosed that I didn't need surgery to recover even though she had no personal relationship to me and a financial incentive to operate. But I also saw that since she operated on my friend that she would operate if she deemed it necessary. Thus I believe that she actually evaluated each case carefully on its own. Unfortunately, the tendency towards pushing patients into lucrative active interventions (like surgeries) does seem common even if it isn't the rule.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#419
post #315
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gender dysphoria (5% of young adults now) In no country is it true that 5% of young adults have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria. The Pew Research article that you linked only looks at how people identify themselves.

Right, but why has it been normalized? This is a disorder according to DSM V, and the word “dysphoria” also suggests profound discomfort and unease. Like “body dysmorphic disorders” like anorexia (another issue for young girls). Perhaps people are trivializing the actual affliction and are “appropriating” the identity the way it has been done with blackface or wearing drag for the fun of it etc. I actually hope so si…

Yes, it's a very conservative ideology masquerading as progressivism.

Re: I went to 50 different dentists: almost all gave a different diagnosis (1997)

#420
post #19

My wife was shocked to learn in dental school how many people were there focused on the money. From her experience I learned that dentistry in particular is a profession that has a low investment / high payoff ratio. Relative to medical school dental school is easier to get into and shorter, and unscrupulous dentists can extract a lot of money out of patients. PS: I feel compelled to share her best advice re oral hyg…

I always remember the advice that Lloyd Kaufman from Troma Films (makers of Toxic Avenger) gave in the book Make Your Own Damn Movie: If you are looking for funding for your movie, ask a dentist.
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