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Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

blog.everydayscientist.com

111–120 of 351 posts

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#111

The purpose of science publications is to share new results with other scientists, so others can build on or verify the correctness of the work. There has always been an element of “receiving credit” to this, but the communication aspect is what actually matters from the perspective of maximizing scientific progress. In the distant past, publication was an informal process that mostly involved mailing around letters,…

Most of this is very legit, but this

> Still other outsiders, who misunderstand the entire process, are upset that intermediate results are sometimes incorrect. This confuses them, and they’re angry that the process sometimes assigns “points” to people who they perceive as undeserving. So instead of simply accepting that sharing results widely to maximize the chance of verification is the whole point of the publication process, or coming up with a better set of promotion metrics, they want to gum up the essential sharing process to make it much less efficient and reduce the fan-out degree and rate of publication.

Does not represent my experience in the academy at all. There is a ton of gamesmanship in publishing. That is ultimately the yardstick academics are measured against, whether we like it or not. No one misunderstands that IMO, the issue is that it's a poor incentive. I think creating a new class of publication, one that requires replication, could be workable in some fields (e.g. optics/photonics), but probably is totally impossible in others (e.g. experimental particle physics).

For purely intellectual fields like mathematics, theoretical physics, philosophy, you probably don't need this at all. Then there are 'in the middle fields' like machine learning which in theory would be easy to replicate, but also would be prohibitively expensive for, e.g. baseline training of LLMs.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#113
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No subset of humanity is “pure hearted.” Fraud and malice will exist in everything people do. Fortunately these fraudulent incidents seem relatively rare, when one compares the number of reported incidents to the number of publications and scientists. But this doesn’t change anything. The benefit of scientific publication is to make it easier to detect and verify incorrect results , which is exactly what happened in…

For your analogy on car accidents - a notable difference between both is that in the case of car accidents, we are able to get numbers on when, how and why they happen and then make conclusions from that. In this case, we are not even aware of most events of fraud/"bad papers"/manipulation - the "crisis" is that we are losing faith in the science we are doing - results that were cornerstones of entire fields are foun…

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Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone cares enough about the work to build on it, they will replicate it anyway. Does it really deserve to be called work if it doesn't include the a full, working set of instructions that if followed to a T allow it to be replicated? To me that's more like pollution, making it someone else's problem. I certainly don't see how "we did this, just trust us" can even be considered science, and that's not because…

You just described the majority of scientific papers. A "working set of instructions" is not really feasible in most cases. You can't include every piece of hard- and software required to replicate your own setup.

You should.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#115

I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. This of course depends a lot on the specific field, but it can easily be months of effort to replicate a paper. You save some time compared to the original as you don't have to repeat the dead ends and you might receive some samples and can skip parts of…

>I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. I think it would be fine to half the productivity of these fields, if it means that you can reasonably expect papers to be accurate.

It would be more than just half productivity. Not only do you have to do the work twice, but you add the delay of someone else replicating before something can be published and built upon by others. If you are developer, imagine how much your productivity would drop going from a 3 minute build to a 1 day build.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#117
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. I don't see how the current system works really either. Fraud is rampant, and replication crisis is the most common state of most fields. Basically the current system is failing at finding out what is true. Which is the entire point. That's pretty damn…

Fraud seems rampant because you hear about cases of fraud, but not about the tens of thousands of research labs plugging away day after day.

I agree that most labs are probably not out to defraud people. But without replication I don't think it's reasonable to have much confidence in what is published.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#118

I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. This of course depends a lot on the specific field, but it can easily be months of effort to replicate a paper. You save some time compared to the original as you don't have to repeat the dead ends and you might receive some samples and can skip parts of…

> If someone cares enough about the work to build on it, they will replicate it anyway. Well, the trouble is that hasn't been the case in practice. A lot of the replication crisis was attempting for the first time to replicate a foundational paper that dozens of other papers took as true and built on top of, and then seeing said foundational paper fail to replicate. The incentives point toward doing new research inst…

It is the case in my field (ML): if I care enough about a published result I try to replicate it.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#119

The purpose of science publications is to share new results with other scientists, so others can build on or verify the correctness of the work. There has always been an element of “receiving credit” to this, but the communication aspect is what actually matters from the perspective of maximizing scientific progress. In the distant past, publication was an informal process that mostly involved mailing around letters,…

Most of this is very legit, but this > Still other outsiders, who misunderstand the entire process, are upset that intermediate results are sometimes incorrect. This confuses them, and they’re angry that the process sometimes assigns “points” to people who they perceive as undeserving. So instead of simply accepting that sharing results widely to maximize the chance of verification is the whole point of the publicati…

[deleted]

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is a lot of work, I tend to think that one can then always publish preprints if they can't wait for the replication. I don't understand why a published paper should count as an achievement (against tenure or funding) at all before the work is replicated. The current model just creates perverse incentives to encourage lying, P-hacking, and cherry-picking. This would at least work for fields like machine learn…

and in this proposal, who will be tasked with replicating the work?

In some fields, replication is already the prerequisite to benchmark the SoTA. So the incentives boil down to publishing them along with negative results. Or as some have suggested, make it mandatory for PHD candidates to replicate.

Though, it seems that it is possible to game the system, by creating positive/negative replication intentionally, to collude with/harm the author.

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