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America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

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Re: America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

#51
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are lots of things that are good and moral to offer that aren't human rights.

Yes, societies around the world still have lots of improvements that can be made, and probably can keep improving forever.

I'm not convinced that moral and good is the criteria by which something is deemed a human right. Especially considering that "moral" means wildly different things in different cultures and "human rights" span the totality of humanity.

Re: America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

#52
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WSJ's journalism side isn't its editorial board. They're the same youngish college grads and old lifers as everywhere else.

You might want to rethink your perspective on this. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/opinion/trump-meritocracy...

> Now we’re not only a college-dominated profession; we’re an elite-college-dominated profession. Only 0.8 percent of college students graduate from the super-elite 12 schools (the Ivy League colleges, plus Stanford, M.I.T., Duke and the University of Chicago). A 2018 study found that more than 50 percent of the staff writers at the beloved New York Times and The Wall Street Journal attended one of the 29 most elite universities in the nation.

Great that one journalist is self-aware but I'm not sure the opinion of a single journalist warrants a change in perspective here.

Re: America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

#53
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay." The with pay term feels oddly specific and overly prescriptive. (If your society had UBI is this implying the employer still must pay you for holidays?) I'd feel the minimum requirement to not threaten livelihood when a potentially coercive relationship exists is unpaid leave should be allowe…

Under UBI, you would not be paid less no matter which days you do or don't work, including holidays. Also arguably if UBI weren't tied to a job, then any "job" would really just be volunteer work.

Jobs can still exist under UBI. UBI sets a floor income.

Re: America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay." The with pay term feels oddly specific and overly prescriptive. (If your society had UBI is this implying the employer still must pay you for holidays?) I'd feel the minimum requirement to not threaten livelihood when a potentially coercive relationship exists is unpaid leave should be allowe…

The Declaration of Human Rights is not an abstract philosophical document, it is a practical framework meant to be applied to the world as it is today. It is intentionally prescriptive so that it can influence real-world governments and societies, and it has been somewhat successful in that regard. It is not intended to be applicable to any society imaginable, that would be impossibly broad. On a practical note, I di…

> On a practical note, I disagree with you that reducing someone's income if they need to stay home to stay healthy is non-coercive, in the world as it exists today.

If you are party to an agreement wherein you exchange labor for capital, how is it non-coercive to force someone to pay you for not holding up your end of the bargain?

Re: America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay." The with pay term feels oddly specific and overly prescriptive. (If your society had UBI is this implying the employer still must pay you for holidays?) I'd feel the minimum requirement to not threaten livelihood when a potentially coercive relationship exists is unpaid leave should be allowe…

The Declaration of Human Rights is not an abstract philosophical document, it is a practical framework meant to be applied to the world as it is today. It is intentionally prescriptive so that it can influence real-world governments and societies, and it has been somewhat successful in that regard. It is not intended to be applicable to any society imaginable, that would be impossibly broad. On a practical note, I di…

[deleted]

Re: America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

#56
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Declaration of Human Rights is not an abstract philosophical document, it is a practical framework meant to be applied to the world as it is today. It is intentionally prescriptive so that it can influence real-world governments and societies, and it has been somewhat successful in that regard. It is not intended to be applicable to any society imaginable, that would be impossibly broad. On a practical note, I di…

> On a practical note, I disagree with you that reducing someone's income if they need to stay home to stay healthy is non-coercive, in the world as it exists today. If you are party to an agreement wherein you exchange labor for capital, how is it non-coercive to force someone to pay you for not holding up your end of the bargain?

You can't look at one agreement in a vacuum. Organizing a society such that most people are forced to make such an agreement is coercive and inhumane (given our abundance of resources and ability to guarantee these rights to everyone). If we lived in a society where nobody was forced to make that choice and all people were guaranteed all the rights in the declaration, then two individuals entering into the agreement you describe would not be a problem. In this scenario, neither individual would be putting their health or safety at risk, even if one of them went without pay or the agreement fell apart.

Shorter answer: an agreement itself cannot be coercive if you voluntarily agreed to it, but you can be coerced into making that agreement. That's often the situation in America today.

Re: America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

#57
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that's the popular thing to say nowadays, but it really isn't.

It kinda depends on circumstances. If you’re mainstream attractive, healthy, and above median income, the US is pretty nice. If any of those things are missing, it pretty much sucks.

That's... True about anywhere and any group of people?

Re: America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

#58
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, societies around the world still have lots of improvements that can be made, and probably can keep improving forever.

I'm not convinced that moral and good is the criteria by which something is deemed a human right. Especially considering that "moral" means wildly different things in different cultures and "human rights" span the totality of humanity.

How about the other option?

>What is the minimum quality of life you want for your children?

Re: America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

#59
post #39
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRRC there used to be far slower domestic parcel shipping options but I think as things sped up it really didn’t make sense to keep it around. The whole pipeline was working faster regardless.

Yeah, there used to be a bunch but now it’s next day air or ground and that’s really it. I’m talking marking packages as voluntary “non priority” or something. I don’t need everything right away and prime is worthless now anyway.

One thing I learned about code and logistics was that no matter what you say time wise if you do "best effort" and deliver early ... people get pissed when you don't deliver early later on. But then if you've got packages it means you end up intentionally holding them purely for customer service reasons.

Re: America’s Truckers, Cargo Pilots and Package Carriers Are Fed Up

#60
post #59
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there used to be a bunch but now it’s next day air or ground and that’s really it. I’m talking marking packages as voluntary “non priority” or something. I don’t need everything right away and prime is worthless now anyway.

One thing I learned about code and logistics was that no matter what you say time wise if you do "best effort" and deliver early ... people get pissed when you don't deliver early later on. But then if you've got packages it means you end up intentionally holding them purely for customer service reasons.

Sometimes I get sad on early delivery - I want it to arrive on a particular date for reasons. I know why it’s nearly impossible to guarantee, though.
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