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Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

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Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#131
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a general consensus that finance is squarely on topic for HN. Not to mention we end up talking about politics all the time too because hackers are people (for now! :P).

> because hackers are people > finance It "only pays the equipment". > politics It "only affects the operating environment". "Little things".

From a novel? A film?

If so please share because it sounds interesting.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#132
post #100
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Poland cashless payments thrive, more than in Germany.

From childhood to adolescence I used to go on calls with my dad to fix air conditioners with my dad and we met a Polish couple. By this time I was 14 and communist, having read the motorcycle diaries. Anyway, I asked them about their experience growing up in communist Poland. The wife was absolutely disgusted towards communism. Mind you, this couple lived in a pretty luxurious two story house. She associated communis…

> How you knew you'd be able to go to college if you studied hard, how you'd get to go to summer camp, how you'd get an apartment when you got a job, and so on.

Except if you pissed off the communist party, then none of that for you and your children.

No way around the state-given requirements - want to work with computers and don't have a diploma for that? Well that's not possible - here's your shovel and get digging already, the state needs you! Want to move to another city and change careers? Well you're going to need good friends at important positions, and gift them dearly (and not just once to get what you want - you needed to build the relationship for a long time before that).

My grandfather was beating his children (my father and uncle) because if a child did or said the wrong thing at the wrong time, it was over for the whole family, and he felt like that's the only way to get the children to truly understand it. And even in 2013 - 25 years after the revolution - he was still afraid of the communist secret police.

My father was hit by a car when he was 12 and had a very seriously broken leg. My grandfather was taking care of him by himself, because the state's idea of taking care was locking him in a dark room with bars on the windows and using a medieval-like machine to stretch the leg, without any painkillers.

My grandfather took him to Yugoslavia to swim in the sea and that actually helped and saved his leg. However since it took months, the communist party decided to label him a parasite - punishable by prison. The local communist party cell voted about it and it didn't go through by one vote... that my grandfather got thanks to a bribe.

It was "good" for the people who fell in line - as in, they didn't have any special circumstances. Anything out of the ordinary and your life was way worse.

> The wife was absolutely disgusted towards communism. Mind you, this couple lived in a pretty luxurious two story house. She associated communism with lack.

Women had to use newspaper instead of menstrual pads. There was only very few styles of clothing/shoes available for women, while men had much more choice. Women didn't get the opportunities to be educated and work like men did, because it was expected they will stay at home and take care of children. It was a system made by men, for men. It's not surprising that a woman hated it.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#133
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in Europe, I have the feeling the vast majority of people consider it unnecessary. The vibe I get is "The system works, so why not let the government handle and control everything.". > I wouldn't be surprised if that is a golbal phenomena and holds steady throughout time. Come to the east of EU/Europe and you'll see a completely opposite vibe. No wonder, people in their 40s still remember communism. And the ol…

Which country for example?

Any country that used to be part of the Eastern Bloc or the Soviet Union itself.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#134
post #4

I certainly would not mind similar provisions in law in the US.

I certainly would not mind similar provisions in law in the US. I agree. Every time I see a sign that says "We're cashless!" I read it as "We're racist!" If the very minimal burden of handling cash is going to ruin your business, you're not a business. You're a hobby.

As a counter to this, every time I see a sign saying "cash only", I think they are dodging tax.

Though to your point on handling cash being a cost, surely credit card charges are more than the cost of handling cash?

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#135
post #8

What makes cash special is that compared to other assets, it puts a bit more power into the hands of the individual and a bit less power in the hands of the government. To count or seize the individuals cash, the government has to make some fuzz. Aka send men with guns. There seems to be some divide in our world between people who consider individual power a good thing and people who consider it unnecessary. Here in…

> As it combines the durability of gold with the usability of money. But these two things are mutually exclusive. If it's durable, you don't want to use it, because it might be worth more in the future.

What a solution for consumerism. Imagine we only bought what we need. I’m being half tongue and cheek

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly would not mind similar provisions in law in the US. I agree. Every time I see a sign that says "We're cashless!" I read it as "We're racist!" If the very minimal burden of handling cash is going to ruin your business, you're not a business. You're a hobby.

As a counter to this, every time I see a sign saying "cash only", I think they are dodging tax. Though to your point on handling cash being a cost, surely credit card charges are more than the cost of handling cash?

Taxes (illegal) and transaction processing fees (legal)

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#137
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From childhood to adolescence I used to go on calls with my dad to fix air conditioners with my dad and we met a Polish couple. By this time I was 14 and communist, having read the motorcycle diaries. Anyway, I asked them about their experience growing up in communist Poland. The wife was absolutely disgusted towards communism. Mind you, this couple lived in a pretty luxurious two story house. She associated communis…

> How you knew you'd be able to go to college if you studied hard, how you'd get to go to summer camp, how you'd get an apartment when you got a job, and so on. Except if you pissed off the communist party, then none of that for you and your children. No way around the state-given requirements - want to work with computers and don't have a diploma for that? Well that's not possible - here's your shovel and get diggin…

[dead]

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Gold-backed reserve notes and even coins made of the metal(s) can still be debased Well, yes, but it's harder to play games with, which makes it more stable. It's similar to making the argument that while Windows is less secure than Linux, Linux also has security issues, so we should just have everybody use Windows. We have ample evidence that the caretakers of our money supply are, shall we say, less than diligent.…

> Well, yes, but it's harder to play games with, which makes it more stable. Gold might be better at average value performance over time than fiat currencies which are actively managed for stability and a bias toward slight value decline, but its very definitely not more stable than major fiat currencies.

That's an odd assertion to make, considering the current condition of fiat currencies.

Gold is more or less untethered to anything right now, other than what people think it's worth as a hedge. There is an intrinsic value in industrial applications, but that's an edge case. So you are basically valuing gold based on what you can get for it in fiat currencies, which is like using a yardstick to measure itself.

Inflation after closing the gold window in the 70s has been staggering. If you have to cough up something--gold, silver, goats, something--for your currency, you can't play the sorts of games we do now with dollars.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, yes, but it's harder to play games with, which makes it more stable. Gold might be better at average value performance over time than fiat currencies which are actively managed for stability and a bias toward slight value decline, but its very definitely not more stable than major fiat currencies.

That's an odd assertion to make, considering the current condition of fiat currencies. Gold is more or less untethered to anything right now, other than what people think it's worth as a hedge. There is an intrinsic value in industrial applications, but that's an edge case. So you are basically valuing gold based on what you can get for it in fiat currencies, which is like using a yardstick to measure itself. Inflati…

> That's an odd assertion to make, considering the current condition of fiat currencies.

Its not, if you look at the actual inflation-adjusted price of gold over time.

The claim that the exchange value of gold for other goods and services should be more stable than the exchange rate of fiat currencies for goods and services simply is inconsistent with the facts.

> If you have to cough up something--gold, silver, goats, something--for your currency, you can't play the sorts of games we do now with dollars.

Yes, its much harder to actively manage a commodity currency for price stability, which is the main “game” played with fiat currencies.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#140
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, privately schooled people groomed for political positions are not idiots in the classical term, and while he might not be incompetent at doing things that further his own agenda but he's incompetent at tackling present day issues as going cashless was never an issue in Austria to begin with.

> going cashless was never an issue in Austria to begin with I have had requests in Austria to pay with a card: some pressure exists. After 2020, such pressure was on signs spread in the territory. And Austria is part of systems above. Or, for example, does one still find bank cards without "Contactless" NFC in Austria? Please let us know - I am sitting in the car right now.

>I have had requests in Austria to pay with a card:

We must be living in different Austrias then. I've never been pressured to pay by card ever and many places don't even accept cards.

>After 2020, such pressure was on signs spread in the territory.

Well yeah, Covid happened in 2020, and contactless payment is much more hygienic than exchanging paper that's been through god knows where throught its lifetime. Or don't you feel public health and safety in a pandemic is irrelevant?

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