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Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

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Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#61

Post by FirmwareBurner »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #57
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A good idea is a good idea Everyone has good ideas, hell, I just had 3 good ideas this morning, the point is the intentions of political ideas, and he's intentions are purely for gathering populist support and votes from those doing tax fraud (a large sizable percentage in Austria) as going cashless was never an option in Austria anyway so it was a non-issue to begin with, a nothing burger if you will.

Yes, but it did bring the concept to be debated to HN. I'm now thinking we should do it in my country.

In which country do you live where going cashless is a bigger concern for the population than healthcare, housing, education, cost of living and the rest, because I'd like to live there?

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#62

Post by neverartful »

TekMol wrote: post #8

What makes cash special is that compared to other assets, it puts a bit more power into the hands of the individual and a bit less power in the hands of the government. To count or seize the individuals cash, the government has to make some fuzz. Aka send men with guns. There seems to be some divide in our world between people who consider individual power a good thing and people who consider it unnecessary. Here in…

"What makes cash special is that compared to other assets, it puts a bit more power into the hands of the individual and a bit less power in the hands of the government."

s/bit/lot/g

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#63

Post by reaperducer »

bruce511 wrote: post #31
reaperducer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly would not mind similar provisions in law in the US. I agree. Every time I see a sign that says "We're cashless!" I read it as "We're racist!" If the very minimal burden of handling cash is going to ruin your business, you're not a business. You're a hobby.

It'll vary from place to place, but dealing with cash can be quite an expensive exercise. There are costs to depositing it for example. Plus there's a whole layer of security that happens when you have cash on the premises. If you have employees, cash also makes it much (much) easier for theft, fraud, tax evasion, and so on. It's pretty easy for employees to skim cash if it's coming and going. If the "cash" part of t…

And yet millions of businesses have figured out how to make it work for the last thousand years.

Cashless advocates are always talking about how "expensive" cash is, but never quantify it. Is handling cash more expensive than credit card fees, for example? If it were, businesses like supermarkets that operate on 1-2% margins wouldn't take cash. But they do. Some near me take cash freely, but charge extra to use debit cards. (For some reason, credit cards incur no fee.)

It's like the banks have used fear to institutionalize extortion.

"Think of all these horrible things that might possibly happen to your business. Damed shame if one of these exceedingly unlikely things was to happen.

Now if you give us 3% off your sales, we can make all that disappear..."

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#64

Post by nmstoker »

I recall a trip to Austria as a boy in the early nineties and having it related by an Austrian (who dealt with international types/tourists a lot) that the opening of a McDonald's Drive-Thru located somewhat up towards the mountains near Innsbruck had not gone smoothly!

It seems that the locals, being from long established farming stock, were aghast at handing over money before they got their meals from a different window!

Credit cards were barely accepted anywhere either.

Whilst I'm sure the credit card situation has improved markedly since then, maybe a good amount of the spirit behind the drive thru reaction remains?!

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#65

Post by mdp2021 »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #32
TekMol wrote: post #8

What makes cash special is that compared to other assets, it puts a bit more power into the hands of the individual and a bit less power in the hands of the government. To count or seize the individuals cash, the government has to make some fuzz. Aka send men with guns. There seems to be some divide in our world between people who consider individual power a good thing and people who consider it unnecessary. Here in…

As a Frenchmen, I think we can't say we are against government oversight. But I don't think I would agree that: > people consider it unnecessary In fact, I've discussed a cashless society with friends, and the majority is against, precisely because of this. Now it may be my bubble, and not apply to the average French citizen.

> Frenchmen ... the majority is against

When did it become so hard to pay for fuel with cash in your territories?

The matter is creeping in...

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#66

Post by reaperducer »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #40
Vespasian wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Europe has since a few year though is a right to a bank account. Banks must offer basic accounts to anybody (at nondiscriminatory pricing) and unless it's used for fraud or if the fee cannot be paid isn't allowed to close it. That certainly helps.

It helps with accessibility, not with the problem that cashless is dangerous for democracy. Everytime you pay anything with something else than cash, it is recorded: the amount, the time, the place, and the nature of the thing you buy. There is no way to go to a gay bar (or another place loaded with consequences) without a trace. And this is needed for human dignity. There is way to support a controversial political…

There is no way to pay for something when electricity or network goes down. And this is necessary to deal with crisis.

I've noticed that the loudest voices in favor of getting rid of cash usually seem to live in places that have few, if any, natural disasters.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#67

Post by boredhedgehog »

TekMol wrote: post #8

What makes cash special is that compared to other assets, it puts a bit more power into the hands of the individual and a bit less power in the hands of the government. To count or seize the individuals cash, the government has to make some fuzz. Aka send men with guns. There seems to be some divide in our world between people who consider individual power a good thing and people who consider it unnecessary. Here in…

> As it combines the durability of gold with the usability of money.

But these two things are mutually exclusive. If it's durable, you don't want to use it, because it might be worth more in the future.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#68

Post by mdp2021 »

benreesman wrote: post #19
DarkNova6 wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I think there's a general consensus that finance is squarely on topic for HN. Not to mention we end up talking about politics all the time too because hackers are people (for now! :P).

> because hackers are people

> finance

It "only pays the equipment".

> politics

It "only affects the operating environment".

"Little things".

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#69

Post by Makhini »

throwaway60707 wrote: post #14
TekMol wrote: post #8

What makes cash special is that compared to other assets, it puts a bit more power into the hands of the individual and a bit less power in the hands of the government. To count or seize the individuals cash, the government has to make some fuzz. Aka send men with guns. There seems to be some divide in our world between people who consider individual power a good thing and people who consider it unnecessary. Here in…

> Here in Europe, I have the feeling the vast majority of people consider it unnecessary. The vibe I get is "The system works, so why not let the government handle and control everything.". > I wouldn't be surprised if that is a golbal phenomena and holds steady throughout time. Come to the east of EU/Europe and you'll see a completely opposite vibe. No wonder, people in their 40s still remember communism. And the ol…

In Poland cashless payments thrive, more than in Germany.

Re: Austrian leader proposes enshrining the use of cash in country's constitution

#70

Post by pessimizer »

pdq wrote: post #47
TekMol wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country for example?

I'd suggest watching the 1420 channel, where they interview Russians on the street. Many of the older generation have a nostalgia of life under communism, whereas the younger generation is more skeptical. Here's one of the interviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjI8jwn0Upo

> the younger generation is more skeptical

i.e., the first generations never to experience it, and the least knowledgeable.

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