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Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

arstechnica.com

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Re: Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

#31

Post by andylei »

cmelbye wrote: post #21
rickmb wrote: post #19

The current political and legal sell-out to the US makes me, and I believe many fellow-Europeans, increasingly angry in a way that is fundamentally different from any anti-American feelings for instance during the Bush-years. Disagreeing with US foreign policy is one thing, but being on the receiving end of US meddling through political and legal corruption in a way that undermines our civil rights cuts way deeper.

It wouldn't be possible if you government didn't cooperate. They're just as much to blame in this case.

that's exactly what rickmb is talking about. he says

> sell-out to the US

Re: Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

#32

Post by methoddk »

travisp wrote: post #27
toyg wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the extradition process is started, it is because the relevant authorities have already decided the individual is guilty. Otherwise, they would not bother spending so much time and effort trying to apprehend him. Juries are invariably biased against foreigners, so the chances of an acquittal are basically zero.

>When the extradition process is started, it is because the relevant authorities have already decided the individual is guilty. So, what is the right approach? Start the extradition process when you don't believe the individual is guilty? I would hope not. Taking action to bring someone to trial because you believe they are guilty is entirely different from the claim that in the US you are now "guilty until proven in…

>Back in June 2010, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) seized O'Dwyer's tvshack.net domain name after a closed, one-sided hearing before a judge.

That shows they believed he is guilty before a trial. It was a linking site, he wasn't hosting anything. Google aids in copyright infringement as people use their service every day to find download links to things. But they are fine? The legislation in place across the globe is not equipped to handle these types of cases. Combine that with ignorant octogenarian judges, equals one messed up "justice" system.

Re: Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

#33

Post by kaonashi »

methoddk wrote: post #12

This is completely out of hand now. The US is now a country where you are guilty until proven innocent. It is disgusting to see domain seizures with no concrete basis of doing so. This kid is being extradited to the US because his website provided links to TV shows? "Copyright infringers" are treated with less dignity and respect than mass murderers and rapists.

Rape and murder victims just don't have any pull, I guess.

Re: Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

#34

Post by nkassis »

TylerE wrote: post #17

That ARS writeup is pretty one-sided. I love how they paint him up as a poor student, and don't mention the $250,000+ he made off the site. This was absolutely not just piracy, but PROFITING from piracy. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/9013803/Student-R...

How was the money made? Ads? Google has ads and finding a video of any show on there is pretty easy. They are also profiting from infringement.

In the end I just don't get why linking is why if what he did is not it's not illegal where he is he could still be extradited even if he never had servers in the US and never promoted directly to Americans (I'm assuming he didn't go out and ask Americans to his site). Thing is, if his site was in French I would be there would be no case for extradition.

Re: Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

#35

Post by [deleted] »

travisp wrote: post #18
methoddk wrote: post #12

This is completely out of hand now. The US is now a country where you are guilty until proven innocent. It is disgusting to see domain seizures with no concrete basis of doing so. This kid is being extradited to the US because his website provided links to TV shows? "Copyright infringers" are treated with less dignity and respect than mass murderers and rapists.

>This is completely out of hand now. The US is now a country where you are guilty until proven innocent. Am I missing something? Has he been found guilty? Why is an extradition the same thing as being "guilty until proven innocent"? By definition, extradition is before a trial has occurred. After he has been extradited is when the trial will occur.

[deleted]

Re: Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

#36

Post by tptacek »

toyg wrote: post #26
travisp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is completely out of hand now. The US is now a country where you are guilty until proven innocent. Am I missing something? Has he been found guilty? Why is an extradition the same thing as being "guilty until proven innocent"? By definition, extradition is before a trial has occurred. After he has been extradited is when the trial will occur.

When the extradition process is started, it is because the relevant authorities have already decided the individual is guilty. Otherwise, they would not bother spending so much time and effort trying to apprehend him. Juries are invariably biased against foreigners, so the chances of an acquittal are basically zero.

This is true of every prosecution. Prosecutors don't move forward with trials they think they'll lose. Nobody has time for that.

The judge that will hear this trial, on the other hand, will not have already made up their mind.

Re: Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

#37

Post by andylei »

toyg wrote: post #26
travisp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is completely out of hand now. The US is now a country where you are guilty until proven innocent. Am I missing something? Has he been found guilty? Why is an extradition the same thing as being "guilty until proven innocent"? By definition, extradition is before a trial has occurred. After he has been extradited is when the trial will occur.

When the extradition process is started, it is because the relevant authorities have already decided the individual is guilty. Otherwise, they would not bother spending so much time and effort trying to apprehend him. Juries are invariably biased against foreigners, so the chances of an acquittal are basically zero.

> When the extradition process is started, it is because the relevant authorities have already decided the individual is guilty

what's the alternative? you try the guy in absentia (which would actually be an illegal trial in the united states) and then extradite him afterwards? never extradite anyone?

> Juries are invariably biased against foreigners, so the chances of an acquittal are basically zero.

there is absolutely zero evidence for this statement; you just pulled it out of your ass.

Re: Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

#38

Post by praptak »

desas wrote: post #22
scarmig wrote: post #13

Apart from the general ridiculousness of the US extraditing copyright infringers but not pedophiles: Do the Brits really not have any outrage over this? If the PRC successfully extradited an American for some real or imagined digital crime (say, building and hosting the website of a designated terrorist organization), we'd be in an uproar. At least, I hope we would...

Brits have been complaining about this ever since the treaty was signed. I think generally we're currently more concerned about changes to our health system. Plus the USA is hardly the PRC.

> Plus the USA is hardly the PRC.

Yeah, guess which of the two has more inmates per capita.

Re: Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

#39

Post by k-mcgrady »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #15

The kid made $230,000 by helping users view copyrighted material they did not pay for. That sounds pretty jail worthy to me. It is however strange that he's being extradited and I generally oppose individuals "being made an example of". I'd much prefer he go through the UK system than the US.

Sure he made a lot of money doing it but he just posted links. How is this different from Google (or any other search engine)?

Re: Copyright wars heat up: US wins extradition of college kid from England

#40

Post by jterce »

rickmb wrote: post #19

The current political and legal sell-out to the US makes me, and I believe many fellow-Europeans, increasingly angry in a way that is fundamentally different from any anti-American feelings for instance during the Bush-years. Disagreeing with US foreign policy is one thing, but being on the receiving end of US meddling through political and legal corruption in a way that undermines our civil rights cuts way deeper.

It makes many Americans increasingly angry as well.
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