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Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

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Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#181

Post by oezi »

chungy wrote: post #136
_ea1k wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who want F150's at least think of themselves as people who want to be able to tow I've only found this to be true on the internet. In the real world, it is much less common. Lots of people realize that their truck is just the commuter and home depot stuff hauler.

At least it still performs well at the "Home Depot stuff hauler" part. A sedan is absolutely impossible to work for that use case. (Ok: I'm a bit defensive. There's a concerted Internet effort over the past year to paint all pickups as a status symbol without justification, as if every empty bed or fresh-from-the-car-wash truck is proof that the owner doesn't need it. Even if you just move furniture every so often, I…

But if you only now and then, getting a rental for this is much cheaper. Or just get delivery, even cheaper.

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#182

Post by oezi »

qball wrote: post #112
megaman821 wrote: post #12

This will be neat if it works but really there isn't going to be a huge market for 500+ mile cars vs the cost savings of getting a 300-400 mile car. The exception might be road-trippers and people who do a lot of towing but I suspect that is a much smaller population than people tend to think.

A gasoline car can charge from 0% to 100% of its range in 5 minutes. It usually takes longer to take the slight detour and line the car up with the charge port than it does to fully charge the car. Recharging this kind of car does not damage its most expensive part nor does its fuel tank shrink. The newest electric cars take a half hour to do this (a non-trivial amount of time) and only go about 2/3rds as far (less o…

The market for gas cars will be dead in 10 years. It has all the signs of a technology transition and it will be absolutely brutal for all car makers which aren't ready. The range argument won't matter because people rarely drive distances exceeding 200km/120 miles in a single day.

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#183

Post by barrkel »

lelandbatey wrote: post #147
barrkel wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt range is increased much by reduced weight. Only rolling resistance is reduced, but most resistance at speed is from air resistance. Since energy is reclaimed from braking, the extra mass for acceleration is balanced by the extra mass for stopping, so it doesn’t help much with stop start traffic. That’s how I mentally model it anyhow.

It's true that it's not a huge savings, but there's some savings. The EPA estimates approximately 1% reduction in fuel economy for each 100lbs added, so you might get a few % from the the battery weight savings.

Sure, for fuel economy, presumably without regenerative braking. When you're not in smooth traffic, a whole bunch of energy is lost in braking, and that energy is directly proportional to mass.

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#185

Post by enigma20 »

oezi wrote: post #182
qball wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A gasoline car can charge from 0% to 100% of its range in 5 minutes. It usually takes longer to take the slight detour and line the car up with the charge port than it does to fully charge the car. Recharging this kind of car does not damage its most expensive part nor does its fuel tank shrink. The newest electric cars take a half hour to do this (a non-trivial amount of time) and only go about 2/3rds as far (less o…

The market for gas cars will be dead in 10 years. It has all the signs of a technology transition and it will be absolutely brutal for all car makers which aren't ready. The range argument won't matter because people rarely drive distances exceeding 200km/120 miles in a single day.

Many people do. And even if they don't, charing a car every day if you don't have a charger at home or office will be very painful. Imagine that you have to tank theICE car every day, even this would have been irritating.

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#186

Post by djaychela »

gorjusborg wrote: post #117
dangus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for the EV skeptics it’s easy to forget how fast battery chemistry has been evolving. There’s an common assumption that the EV status quo of 300 mile range at barely-affordable prices will continue forever, and therefore with all the woes surrounding charging and bad weather affecting range, EVs are dead in the water. Ten years ago $30k got you 75 miles of range out of a Nissan Leaf. Fast forward to present d…

Are there EV skeptics? I don't think so. There are average people and EV fanboys. It's just that fanboys call the other people skeptics. EVs are in early adoption still, from my point of view. Try to pump it all you want, but EVs offer far less utility for a higher price, and they are more inconvenient. Until the industry standardizes on batteries and stations offer pre-charged battery swaps, I'll hang on to my ICE m…

>Are there EV skeptics? I don't think so.

Lots of them. They're really gaining traction in the UK (where I live) - so much so that I hear compete b****s every day about EVs, and I'm tired of hearing it. I'm on my phone so can't type all the examples but essentially I've heard every advantage of them being said to be untrue, and that ice cars are better for the environment, etc.

The right wing press in this country has a lot to answer for.

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#187

Post by kd5bjo »

iamatworknow wrote: post #70
dangus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for the EV skeptics it’s easy to forget how fast battery chemistry has been evolving. There’s an common assumption that the EV status quo of 300 mile range at barely-affordable prices will continue forever, and therefore with all the woes surrounding charging and bad weather affecting range, EVs are dead in the water. Ten years ago $30k got you 75 miles of range out of a Nissan Leaf. Fast forward to present d…

To me it all still comes down to charging infrastructure. The current state of batteries is good enough for me, but I live in an apartment and can't charge at home, and the availability/reliability local charging stations are a crap shoot, nevermind charging on a road trip. But when (if?) I own my own house and can charge at home, I'll be in even with the current state of batteries.

My primary concern with the charging infrastructure is how well it will handle a large number of people taking emergency trips at the same time. How do you evacuate south Florida with an incoming hurricane, for example, when most people have switched from gasoline to electric cars?

That scenario pushes the existing fuel delivery infrastructure to its limit already, and electric chargers provide significantly fewer passenger miles per fueling minute than a gasoline pump does. In practice, a lot of emergency plans will need to be completely overhauled to not assume most people will be able to drive themselves out of the danger zone.

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#188

Post by chrisandchris »

ultrarunner wrote: post #163
cryptonector wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is further constrained by gear ratios, meaning not all power is available at all times. CVTs enter the chat. > At a 20% efficiency, that's 2600 Wh/kg. Hybrids do better, of course.

CVTs enter the chat, but it's mostly to ask when they'll be replaced so you can use them again. (I don't remember details, but we decided to specifically avoid cars with CVTs because of reliability issues. Sure enough, the only person I know with a CVT is having belt slipping issues. Seems like certain manufacturers were switching back to dual clutch arrangements)

Drove a Suvaru with CVT for 100k km. Never had any issue. Never heard of anyone having issues with CVT (from Subaru).

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#189

Post by npsomaratna »

alex7734 wrote: post #24

> it could release highly toxic hydrogen sulfide gas. How bad is it in real world conditions? Because from what I'm reading it's not the "it makes you sick" kind of toxic, but rather the "it kills you in seconds" kind of toxic.

I remember synthesizing H2S in high school (for chemistry practicals, I think). I made the mistake of attempting to smell it. This was for a fraction of a second—but during that time, I could feel the individual bubbles of gas entering my nose; and I almost passed out.

Re: Tell HN: I think I found Toyota's battery

#190

Post by wcoenen »

Detrytus wrote: post #55
dreamcompiler wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Gasoline is much, much more energy dense than Li-Ion batteries, but in terms of dollars per mile, an electric car is 2x-4x cheaper to drive than an ICE car. That's because an internal combustion engine wastes the majority of gasoline's energy as heat, while electric motors use most of the battery's energy to move the car.

> an electric car is 2x-4x cheaper to drive than an ICE car It hugely depends on the cost of electricity. Last year some European countries (Netherlands IIRC) had those so high, that it was actually more expensive to drive EV than ICE.

You can optimize this with the right electricity contract. Time of day pricing ("dynamisch tarief" in the Netherlands) combined with charging during the cheapest times can make a big difference. And as a bonus to society, you help to balance the grid.
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