Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

e360.yale.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 159 posts

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#121

Post by brutusborn »

yongjik wrote: post #114
brutusborn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s good to encourage appreciation, but no need to exaggerate risks. IPCC predicts existential risks to marine ecosystems at temperatures much higher than today. Your child will probably be able to go snorkelling just fine as an adult. My local coral reefs have returned to health after a major bleeching event that was predicted to be the beginning of the end. Sometimes our catastrophic predictions are wrong,…

Collapsing marine ecosystems are not theoretical risks, they have been happening around the world for decades (if not more). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfishing#Examples_and_evide... Or did you mean "Don't worry, the impact of oxygen level change is exaggerated, because we'll make sure those fish are gone one way or other!"?

Yes, some fisheries are collapsing in places where they are not properly regulated.

Meanwhile whale numbers are increasing, polar bear numbers are increasing and in my local fishery the fish population is increasing!

Don’t take my comment as saying there are no problems, I’m merely pointing out that telling children “this probably won’t exist when you are an adult” isn’t particularly honest and I don’t think it’s very useful.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#122

Post by brutusborn »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #117
brutusborn wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I’ve read a lot actually, which is why I’ve changed my mind about the severity of these problems. Most predictions are just conjecture with no real link to good models. I’m always happy to read more papers if you know of any good ones. All the ones I’ve read on low ocean oxygen have convinced me it isn’t a very critical problem. Just a few things you get wrong: thinking models are 100% accurate, thinking scienti…

Actually, I know you don't. The complexity involved exceeds the intellectual ability of a single person, no matter how arrogant they are. Because you, single person, do not have the ability to ingest all the data, do not have access to the necessary supercomputers, do not have the decades of time to write and adapt the simulation software, do not have the PhDs. You are simply one brain. Who very most certainly does n…

You are also one brain. I look at the results from other scientists in the exact same way you do. Just because I don’t build my own climate models doesn’t mean my opinion is incorrect. I build models as a job, so I have a decent understanding of what to look for in a good model.

In fact I follows many scientists who do all the things you mention and who agree with me. Some even think climate change might be good overall! Most skeptics think that it is real and that it is bad, but that it is not something worth panicking about.

As I said before, I’m always open to learning more. What predictions frighten you the most? You mention ocean acidification, when do scientists predict that this problem will become existential?

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#123

Post by chmod775 »

myshpa wrote: post #62
swsdsailor wrote: post #14

I am very interested in using tech to help the ocean. Does anyone have ideas for technical solutions to this?

Yes. 1. stop overfishing by switching to plant based diets 2. stop fishing ... even fish we don't fish, but decimate (as bycatch) will rebound 3. stop fishing ... there won't be as much plastic to entangle fish, mammals and turtles (49% of great pacific garbage patch is fishing nets) 4. stop animal ag ... minimize agricultural runoff from farms and fields to stop creating dead zones in the ocean 5. stop animal ag ...…

> 1. stop overfishing by switching to plant based diets

Switching to fish raised in fish farms in the open ocean / fresh water fish raised in farms (which are often local) should already be a large improvement, even if it isn't optimal, especially right now when those captive fish are fed fish caught in open waters.

Also hope you like mussels and clams, because raising those in farms has little ecological impact and might actually reduce net CO2 by sequestering it in their shells.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#124

Post by pierat »

> As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

"An Uncertain future"? Seriously? The word you're looking for is "death".

No sense in couching climate disaster in metaphorical soft words. There is going to be death, and a whole lot of death of all species, including humans.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#125

Post by pierat »

actionfromafar wrote: post #90
harry8 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok this conversation can get pretty silly, let's try to avoid that. Now at 2023 we have lifted more people out of poverty and ill-health in both raw numbers and as a percentage of the population than any time in the planet's history. Without prescribing anything in so far as dealing with the world's problems, be careful flippantly trading that off. It may not be you, your friends and your family that previously watch…

When the oil is running out, how will you make the fertiliser?

With the billionaires?

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#126

Post by 000ooo000 »

pierat wrote: post #124

> As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future "An Uncertain future"? Seriously? The word you're looking for is "death". No sense in couching climate disaster in metaphorical soft words. There is going to be death, and a whole lot of death of all species, including humans.

The shareholders believe alarmist language is best avoided

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#127

Post by NovaDudely »

000ooo000 wrote: post #118
NovaDudely wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much. While I am but one of 8 billion people, all animal products have been off the table for a long time now. Part adaption to the future, part protection of what we have today, part ethics.

Yep. 5 years for me. Not sure what will get me first: the protein deficiency, or some kind of stroke from reading rake kickflip justifications for maintaining the animal ag status quo.

Definitely the latter. Mine will come from arguing from a friend that went on full carnivore diet thanks to that paragon of dietary advice Jordan Peterson... the conversations are VERY disagreeable.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#129

Post by moffkalast »

NovaDudely wrote: post #105
mandmandam wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that probably gets you cut off the next time there's a burning oil rig to report on. More likely, the money from the expensive green-washing ads they buy is cut off. Anyway, I'm sick of profit motive being an excuse for media complicity in atrocity.

You know how a lot of people see those in the past as being ignorant and we wonder how they could not see the silly things they did... the older I get, the more that is how I see nowadays. Folks will look back on us in decades/centuries from now and go "what were they thinking? They knew what was happening, knew what had to be done but then didn't do it". There are two books by William T Volleman, the Carbon Ideologi…

I mean what, hindsight is 20/20? People have always been and will always be self-centred and short-sighted. Considering that, while having limited info plus strong preconceptions and it's not really surprising that most decisions ever made have been terrible.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#130

Post by moffkalast »

NovaDudely wrote: post #111
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don’t make paper clips though, we’ve optimised to make money and turn everything into it. Paperclips are at least real objects. Money doesnt even exist if everyone isndead, its not real.

There is a great podcast series called 'The Great Simplification' by Nate Hagens. It is basically just a series of interviews with people about the predicaments of our times. Nate has been working on this theory of 'the great simplification' being a coming event when our monetary systems catch up with the ecological systems that actually govern our world. That there is a lot of credit embedded within our very monetar…

Fiat money only has value because we accept that it does, corporation stocks are only valued what they are because we believe they're valuable. It's all hardly based on anything real anymore, it's just recursive speculation. The world's billionaires have so much made up stock money that they can borrow against, but never use a significant amount of because it fundamentally does not exist. The only thing that's stopping the whole system from imploding is maintaining the constant imaginary growth. And climate change will forcibly shatter the illusion eventually.

There is this theory that we've peaked with our net energy extraction in the 1970s, and the graphs that start to diverge that year sure are plentiful and puzzling. It may just be that the last 5 decades have just been us deluding ourselves into believing there's value where very little or none exists, and we only keep afloat because there have been marginal efficiency gains along the way.

Post reply on HN