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Remains of Chihuahua-Sized Dog Unearthed at Roman Britain Villa

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Remains of Chihuahua-Sized Dog Unearthed at Roman Britain Villa

#21

Post by dnstalk »

PNewling wrote: post #13
tokai wrote: post #8

I don't get saying that is has legs and body like a dachshund and then conclude that its not the body of a hunting dog. Dachhunds whole layout is how it is to facilitate hunting.

Huh, I had no idea they were originally a hunting dog. From this very bias source, but has a decent amount of information: https://www.dachshundstation.com/hunting-dachshunds/

> Dachshunds are extremely intelligent dogs who are brave and tough in the face of danger. They had to be, in order to win a battle with a fierce badger.

You need a several Dachshunds to take out a badger. Some will probably die during the hunt. Badgers are larger and have much bigger teeth and huge claws. What is that tiny dog's face going to be able to do?

They also used to arrange fights to bet on called Badger Baiting...

Re: Remains of Chihuahua-Sized Dog Unearthed at Roman Britain Villa

#22

Post by kragen »

civilitty wrote: post #16
kragen wrote: post #5

smithsonian on this discovery: > The tiny pup was likely a beloved pet, not an animal bred for hunting or herding uhh those aren't the only three possibilities tho wikipedia on the history of actual chihuahuas: > In a letter written in 1520, Hernan Cortés wrote that the Aztecs raised and sold little dogs as food. and in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xoloitzcuintle : > Sixteenth-century Spanish accounts tell of large…

> how would you distinguish beloved pets from food animals? well, plausibly by quantity, or by the form of burial. perhaps the villa only had one or two lap dogs? The context of the burial is always important. The bones from cooked animals would most often end up in huge quantities in a midden rather than buried alone or with their owners. Any objects found with the remains like a collar or harness are also useful de…

yeah, presumably the animal found wasn't cooked, but you don't eat livestock that died from illness unless you're starving

Re: Remains of Chihuahua-Sized Dog Unearthed at Roman Britain Villa

#23

Post by timbit42 »

PNewling wrote: post #13
tokai wrote: post #8

I don't get saying that is has legs and body like a dachshund and then conclude that its not the body of a hunting dog. Dachhunds whole layout is how it is to facilitate hunting.

Huh, I had no idea they were originally a hunting dog. From this very bias source, but has a decent amount of information: https://www.dachshundstation.com/hunting-dachshunds/

Many of the small dog breeds were bred for killing rodents and other small critters around homes, castles, factories, etc.

Re: Remains of Chihuahua-Sized Dog Unearthed at Roman Britain Villa

#24

Post by joker_minmax »

dabluecaboose wrote: post #17
tokai wrote: post #8

I don't get saying that is has legs and body like a dachshund and then conclude that its not the body of a hunting dog. Dachhunds whole layout is how it is to facilitate hunting.

I don't get saying it has the legs and body like a dachshund and then saying it's "Chihuahua-sized" Why not just say "Dachshund-like"?

The picture absolutely looks Dachsund-like. Why it would be compared to a Chihuahua is beyond me. Maybe Chihuahua in Rome is better clickbait because everyone knows Dachshunds are from Europe already.

Re: Remains of Chihuahua-Sized Dog Unearthed at Roman Britain Villa

#25

Post by tekla »

tokai wrote: post #10
whythre wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eww? Lots of nobles kept kennels.

I think kragen is joking that with amount of dogs found one could just as well argue that the dogs were livestock and not pets.

They can be both

Re: Remains of Chihuahua-Sized Dog Unearthed at Roman Britain Villa

#26

Post by KeplerBoy »

kragen wrote: post #22
civilitty wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how would you distinguish beloved pets from food animals? well, plausibly by quantity, or by the form of burial. perhaps the villa only had one or two lap dogs? The context of the burial is always important. The bones from cooked animals would most often end up in huge quantities in a midden rather than buried alone or with their owners. Any objects found with the remains like a collar or harness are also useful de…

yeah, presumably the animal found wasn't cooked, but you don't eat livestock that died from illness unless you're starving

Romans simply didn't eat dogs if there were other sources of food around.

If they would have, chances are we still would do it today.

Re: Remains of Chihuahua-Sized Dog Unearthed at Roman Britain Villa

#27

Post by kragen »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #26
kragen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, presumably the animal found wasn't cooked, but you don't eat livestock that died from illness unless you're starving

Romans simply didn't eat dogs if there were other sources of food around. If they would have, chances are we still would do it today.

it is true, as far as i know, that we have no records of the romans eating dogs

but nothing about the romans is simple

there are many foods the romans commonly ate (in rome, during at least some of its near-millennium of culinary change) that few or none of their modern descendants do. these include silphium, garum, liquamen, mallow leaves, marinated sow udders, peacock, flamingo, emmer, lamprey, lamprey semen, sea urchins, bitter vetch, dormice, azerole, open-arse, and raisin wine; most of these were considered delicacies, which is how we know about the romans eating them at all

we do know that the romans did ritually sacrifice dogs in rome, and they claim that the oscans (another italic people) roasted dogs as part of a ritual sacrifice, so romans eating dogs, even in rome, seems plausible to me

moreover, we're talking about an outlying province, 1400 km from the capital, with the potential for significantly different local customs — even if there were no oscans in the legions

Re: Remains of Chihuahua-Sized Dog Unearthed at Roman Britain Villa

#29

Post by mcpackieh »

rsynnott wrote: post #7
mcpackieh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that seems like a politically motivated conclusion. Most of the modern small dog breeds were originally bred to do things like hunt badgers in small burrows. It was probably so in the past as well, even if those reasons have been lost to time.

> politically motivated conclusion I... think the relevant politics are a bit obsolete.

I think the archaeologist's conclusion is motivated by resentment of the 'elite'. He finds a small dog skeleton and concludes that it's evidence of elites flexing on plebs. This interpretation of the evidence is motivated by his personal political feelings.

Re: Remains of Chihuahua-Sized Dog Unearthed at Roman Britain Villa

#30

Post by rsynnott »

mcpackieh wrote: post #29
rsynnott wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> politically motivated conclusion I... think the relevant politics are a bit obsolete.

I think the archaeologist's conclusion is motivated by resentment of the 'elite'. He finds a small dog skeleton and concludes that it's evidence of elites flexing on plebs. This interpretation of the evidence is motivated by his personal political feelings.

Eh... seems like a bit of a stretch; it's 1800 years ago, and the fact that wealthy Romans in the 3rd century tended to be a bit on the comically decadent side isn't exactly news.

However, this would have been something of a political issue _at the time_; there is absolutely _nothing_ that Romans loved so much as moaning about other Romans being decadent. Arguably, if this was common practice, we might expect to documentary evidence in such moaning-oriented writings. :)

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