Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 773 posts

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#271

Post by LocalH »

umvi wrote: post #241
LocalH wrote: post #228

Rent-seeking is the true American way, it seems. Good on the hackers. Good on everyone who helps to liberate us from the overreach of big business.

Is it rent seeking/overreach? I make a video game and charge $50 for it. Later I make a DLC and charge $25 for it. Is your claim that if I keep them as separate purchasable downloads, I'm not rent seeking? But if instead combine the game and dlc into a single executable (to simplify build and distribution) and put the dlc behind a software lock, somehow that is now rent seeking/overreach and I deserve to have hackers…

Even though that is not exactly the issue I refer to, I still say yes, that is my claim, from a moral perspective.

If the content is on the disc or shipped as part of the files of the base game, then it should be accessible without additional purchase. Otherwise, you're undercharging for the original deliverable, and overcharging for the actual "downloadable content".

Imagine this taken to the logical extreme. I sell you a printer. It comes with an amount of ink. However, I've decided that instead of allowing all of the ink to be used, I will limit the printer to only give you X number of pages per cartridge, regardless of actual ink content. Buuuuut, you can also pay me $5 for the "ability" to use all of the ink in your cartridges instead of only part of it. Would it be wrong for hackers to unlock my printers to use all of the ink without having to pay a subscription fee?

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#272

Post by ggreer »

kramerger wrote: post #145

Wait a minute... heated seats are software locked on Teslas? WTF guys?

Before November of 2021, the cheapest Model 3 had heated front seats, and the rear heated seats could be unlocked for $300 (later reduced to $200).[1]

In November of 2021, they made heated seats standard. I think the only software unlocks available for current vehicles are acceleration boost, enhanced autopilot, and FSD.

1. https://www.tesla.com/support/upgrades#tesla-accordion-123-w...

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#273

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #131
johnl1479 wrote: post #7

I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.

> I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). While I intuitively agree with you, I'm having a hard time arguing against the economic argument in favor it. Producing a single version of a product is generally cheaper than producing two different versions. Also offering a lower-margin,…

I wonder if you framed the question a different way if people would be more accepting of the arrangement.

Option A: Buy our car for $50,000

Option B: Buy our car for $40,000, but we'll software lock the "full self driving" feature

It sounds bad if you frame it as the company withholding functionality. It sounds better if you frame it as the company offering a discount, given some software stipulations.

This is really about paying for software. When you spend $400 for Ableton Live you are "unlocking" new capabilities for your PC. When you buy the latest PC game you are "unlocking" new capabilities for your GPU.

If you wanted to do all this yourself you are technically able to do so, at great difficulty and expense. You could develop your own software to operate your vehicle. (Not advisable.)

I prefer to look at it as a value proposition, rather than a battle of ideals. If a car with x, y, and z features disabled at a price of a is attractive to you, then buy it. If not, don't.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#274

Post by no_wizard »

mgiampapa wrote: post #196
vessenes wrote: post #47

Pretty sophisticated attack vector: low voltage attack on AMD secure execution environment during boot. I wonder how many tries you need to get whatever bits you need in the right place. Also, I imagine you only need to cut 12V wires to do this, but I admire the willingness to get in there direct on these systems. I'd be a little nervous to make those cuts personally. Buried in the article is the claim that this will…

Just like we used to have cable box guys willing to sell you an unlocked box for premium channels, we are eventually going to have feature unlock guys that you go do and for a small fee perform some slightly more technical hack to enable features that are already there.

The only hack on cable style TV I remember is you could buy modified satellite authentication cards for DirectTV for a time - usually on eBay or similar sites - and they worked. No idea how long, I had an uncle that had one though, got all the premium channels etc.

I doubt any of this works anymore though

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#276

Post by xavdid »

brador wrote: post #266
coolspot wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your car is filmed and recognized by other teslas.

>Your car is filmed and recognized by other teslas. - coolspot Is this true?

  - filmed: definitely
  - recorded: not sure (probably not long term)
  - recognized: unlikely

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#277

Post by Cornbilly »

umvi wrote: post #241
LocalH wrote: post #228

Rent-seeking is the true American way, it seems. Good on the hackers. Good on everyone who helps to liberate us from the overreach of big business.

Is it rent seeking/overreach? I make a video game and charge $50 for it. Later I make a DLC and charge $25 for it. Is your claim that if I keep them as separate purchasable downloads, I'm not rent seeking? But if instead combine the game and dlc into a single executable (to simplify build and distribution) and put the dlc behind a software lock, somehow that is now rent seeking/overreach and I deserve to have hackers…

Yes. You've already distributed the binary to their machine and are using their resources to store it. In my view, it belongs to them and they should have full access.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#278

Post by fragmede »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #273
Denvercoder9 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). While I intuitively agree with you, I'm having a hard time arguing against the economic argument in favor it. Producing a single version of a product is generally cheaper than producing two different versions. Also offering a lower-margin,…

I wonder if you framed the question a different way if people would be more accepting of the arrangement. Option A: Buy our car for $50,000 Option B: Buy our car for $40,000, but we'll software lock the "full self driving" feature It sounds bad if you frame it as the company withholding functionality. It sounds better if you frame it as the company offering a discount, given some software stipulations. This is really…

That assumes consumers are entirely rational, totally informed beings. Except every economist knows that's not actually true. So you give the consumer option B to get them in the door, and then spring the cost of full self driving on them. Option B can even end up being more than option A. See also: buying a cellphone on contract, back in the day.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#279

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

creata wrote: post #99
rootusrootus wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of a customer, what is the difference between a heated seat that doesn't work because it doesn't exist, and one that is locked out by software? Assuming the customer isn't paying up front for that feature. Some people don't want to pay for heated seats. Turns out the manufacturer found it cheaper to just include the hardware anyway rather than differentiate on the production line. What's the big…

> From the perspective of a customer, what is the difference between a heated seat that doesn't work because it doesn't exist, and one that is locked out by software? In the former case, I didn't pay you money, so you didn't give me a good / service / whatever. That feels fair, because you need money to provide those things. In the latter case, I didn't pay you money, so you didn't flip a switch . That seems like a d…

> In the latter case, I didn't pay you money, so you didn't flip a switch.

This is the case for all software. There is no physical exchange of goods, and nearly zero effort to distribute the bits.

Post reply on HN