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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

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Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#181

Post by something168581 »

joecool1029 wrote: post #83
eldaisfish wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something is opened or modified without manufacturer consent, there is no question of liability because there is none.

Except history hasn't really played out that way. Less serious but Grand Theft Auto had a sex game added to one of their titles that wasn't supposed to be accessible by gamers. People figured out how to unlock it using a modified save file. This ended up in all sorts of legal liability to the company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_(minigame)

Hot Coffee is and was an absurd case with absolutely no merit behind it.

It only became a large issue because it was a social fad for politicians and mass-media to dogpile "evil gaming companies corrupting poor mindless children", and Rockstar in particular with the GTA series was one of the most popular targets of said social fad.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#182

Post by lrem »

d4l3k wrote: post #164
zoover2020 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hoe did you root yours? Did you lose out on any functionality?

There's some functionality loss but it's mostly been mitigated. I have a custom app I wrote since I can't use the stock app. The one feature I miss is that there's no voice commands since that requires Tesla's servers but at the same time I also haven't been bothered enough to plug in a custom backend

wait

So the company that goes "we don't need physical buttons since we have voice commands" also goes "you don't need those in underground parkings"?!

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#183

Post by Ukv »

sowbug wrote: post #132
HWR_14 wrote: post #2

Good. People who buy things should own the things they buy.

I enthusiastically endorse this sentiment until I remember I'm a software engineer whose career depends pretty fundamentally on copyright law. As an industry, we sell things that make hardware more useful. That's what software is. But the software we sell* comes with legal restrictions on what the buyer* can and can't do with it. Which means that we're restricting what our customers can do with the hardware that they…

> But the software we sell* comes with legal restrictions on what the buyer* can and can't do with it. Which means that we're restricting what our customers can do with the hardware that they own.

I'd say the software equivalent to right to repair would specifically be about restrictions against inspecting/decompiling/modifying the software running on your machine.

While I also think copyright is flawed in general, restrictions against redistribution of the software seem like a separate matter - in the same way hardware right to repair doesn't mean you can set up a manufacturing line for new John Deere tractors to sell to others.

> h4ck0rz came out with a crack that unlocked the premium features on it

If someone grafts on useful features using only what you have already downloaded to my device, I think that's fair game.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#184

Post by ngneer »

Game theory at play. Tesla and its customers are adversaries, vying for the same dollars. Tesla implementing these security measures directly translates to being able to charge more for services. Same as John Deere and many others. This is a minmax problem. How to pay the least to cause the other actor to pay the most. If the feature costs $15K and breaking security costs $15K then it is effective security. Obviously not the case here.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#185

Post by lowkeyoptimist »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #97
Zetice wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay great, but now the lowest cost of the car is an extra $10k because the manufacturing just got a lot more complicated as a result of not being able to build every car the same way.

That sounds like problem of a manufacturer not problem of a user.

Adding 10k to the cost of the lowest priced car is definitely a problem for both the user and the manufacturer.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#186

Post by DistractionRect »

kramerger wrote: post #145

Wait a minute... heated seats are software locked on Teslas? WTF guys?

I kinda get it. Rather than maintaining a supply of multiple parts which complicates your supply chain and install/repair procedures, Tesla is making cars nearly 100% identical physically and differentiating in software.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#187

Post by _ea1k »

johnl1479 wrote: post #7

I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.

It gets a lot more ambiguous when the features being offered also come with increased risk of warrantly liability. I'm thinking of things like acceleration boost here rather than FSD and other driver assistance features.

For FSD, part of the payment is for ongoing maintenance. It is likely that the countermeasure would be subscriptions, and they already seem to be progressing in that direction.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#188

Post by m463 »

johnl1479 wrote: post #7

I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.

I can see two different ways of looking at this

If you enabled a seat heater, enabling hardware that the car already has installed, or hot-rodding the engine, I don't think it is that big a deal.

But if you downloaded and installed software from tesla that didn't come with the car, or did something like enabling free supercharging, that would be more like theft of services.

I expect if this becomes a thing, features will have to be downloaded after purchase.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#190

Post by thorncorona »

Aloha wrote: post #98
theluketaylor wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t mind hardware shipping locked and being an optional fee to unlock. I have paid for the rear heated seats in my model 3. What I’m vehemently opposed to is ongoing fees for things that don’t have ongoing costs. BMW wants to charge monthly for seat heaters or carplay, but those things are not a service and don’t have ongoing costs for BMW to provide. If anything creating an ongoing software lock creates an avail…

I feel different about extra cores on a CPU than I do about heated seats. The manufacturing price delta between an 8 core CPU and a 16 core, nowadays is functionally meaningless. The manufacturing cost between a car with heated seats and without headset seats is functioningaflly meaningful. The way I see it, for things like heated seats or CarPlay, I'm already paying for the base hardware cost (plus some margin) as p…

> The manufacturing price delta between an 8 core CPU and a 16 core, nowadays is functionally meaningless.

Semi yields?

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