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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

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Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#51

Post by px43 »

Groxx wrote: post #13

Let's start calling them what they are: Freedom fighters. "Hacking" carries quite a lot of negative connotations in most realms. These are people making sure you are able to make full use of your own stuff . There shouldn't be anything contentious about that.

"Freedom fighters" has a lot of negative connotations in many realms as well. It evokes images of rebels using violence to push some political agenda. Sometimes for worthy causes, sometimes less so.

No, we're keeping the word "hacker".

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#52

Post by cobbal »

Groxx wrote: post #13

Let's start calling them what they are: Freedom fighters. "Hacking" carries quite a lot of negative connotations in most realms. These are people making sure you are able to make full use of your own stuff . There shouldn't be anything contentious about that.

"A group of security researchers (aka hackers)" is an especially bad connection to be drawing for the general public.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#54

Post by theluketaylor »

Libcat99 wrote: post #14
johnl1479 wrote: post #7

I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.

I'm somewhat torn too. IBM and I'm sure others have shipped enterprise hardware for years that was partially locked. You might get a machine with 16 cpus but you only paid for 8, for example, but you could license the rest as you grew. It seems a little similar and it was in no way underhanded, everyone knew what the deal was. However I'll echo what another poster said. I say Tesla should be free to sell whatever the…

I don’t mind hardware shipping locked and being an optional fee to unlock. I have paid for the rear heated seats in my model 3.

What I’m vehemently opposed to is ongoing fees for things that don’t have ongoing costs. BMW wants to charge monthly for seat heaters or carplay, but those things are not a service and don’t have ongoing costs for BMW to provide. If anything creating an ongoing software lock creates an availability risk. If BMW’s authorization service is unavailable do you lose heated seats?

Several manufacturers are offering either monthly or one time costs for certain features. I’m less clear how I feel about that. Maybe quite valuable for someone who lives somewhere warm and only needs seat heat one month a year. It would take many years of paying for a single month to justify paying for the fully unlocked feature. I think I can live with optional monthly fees for things as long as you can always pay once and just have something that stays for her life of the car.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#55

Post by overnight5349 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #36
johnl1479 wrote: post #7

I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.

From the perspective of a customer, what is the difference between a heated seat that doesn't work because it doesn't exist, and one that is locked out by software? Assuming the customer isn't paying up front for that feature. Some people don't want to pay for heated seats. Turns out the manufacturer found it cheaper to just include the hardware anyway rather than differentiate on the production line. What's the big…

In reality, you're still paying for the hardware. Don't think for a second that these 'optional' features don't figure into the price.

Sure, maybe they have a lower markup if you don't buy the license up front, but you still paid for it. These types of gimmicks are free money for the company pulling them.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#56

Post by eldaisfish »

shagie wrote: post #35
HWR_14 wrote: post #2

Good. People who buy things should own the things they buy.

Does enabling FSD come with any liability / terms of service? If it is backdoor enabled and the vehicle crashes, what is Tesla's liability? If the OTA patches to the system are needed and the car is running the base, unupdated (buggy) build, what is Tesla's liability? Alternatively, if a vehicle is running software that hasn't gone through Tesla's subscription how much of the liability for any software problems will…

If something is opened or modified without manufacturer consent, there is no question of liability because there is none.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#57

Post by rvnx »

paxys wrote: post #45
johnl1479 wrote: post #7

I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.

I'm not torn at all. It's my car. I should be able to "hack" it as long as it doesn't involve illegal access to anyone's servers.

The exact same way you should be able to install your own software on your iPhone

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#58

Post by lockhouse »

johnl1479 wrote: post #22
wahnfrieden wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean all feature-gating iOS App Store IAP should be unlocked for iPhone owners?

Not interested in having a whataboutism discussion. There is a clear distinction here of software vs hardware

Is there though?

Even on game consoles, the “DLC” is often a couple meg download because the actual content is already built into the game.

You could turn Windows NT 3.51 Workstation into Server by just changing a registry key!

https://www.landley.net/history/mirror/ms/differences_nt.htm...

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#59

Post by tadfisher »

denlekke wrote: post #37
babypuncher wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my attitude: The consumer should have complete control over any hardware and software in any product they buy. If a manufacturer wants to lock features behind a paywall, that is fine. However, they shouldn't be allowed to complain when consumers modify the thing they bought to get around that paywall. If Tesla really wants to make sure absolutely no one gets FSD or heated seats without paying, then they should…

in general you would think this is just a DRM race then between tesla and unlockers. however, with so many of tesla's features existing outside the car, tesla has a lot of leverage. a music cd or blu ray is generally finished content. a tesla is constantly getting software patches and most owners use the app which i'm sure is going through teslas servers is it reasonable for tesla to lock you out of the app or softwa…

> is it reasonable for tesla to lock you out of the app or software updates if the software hash doesn't match what they provide ?

Of course, and I don't think anyone here is arguing against that.

> would it be okay for them to void the warranty if you run software they didn't provide ?

There are laws governing this exact thing (in the US it's the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act), and in general Tesla would have to prove your unauthorized modification caused the failure which you're claiming under warranty.

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