A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team • Hacker News Board

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#501

Post by insanitybit » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 4:17 PM UTC

nequo wrote: post #496

insanitybit wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was answering this question: > What childish nonsense has you all up in arms for a product you don't pay for?

3 out of your 4 points were about the low market share of Mozilla's products. The remaining one was about Mozilla's CEO firing employees and taking in 2.2 percent of the compensation of Google's CEO. If this is your argument for not using Firefox, then it does read like the reason you're not using it is that it isn't popular with others.

> 2.2 percent of the compensation of Google's CEO.

lol another way of framing that is that her compensation makes up something like 30-40% of all user donations made to Mozilla. I think that's far more relevant than whatever Google's CEO makes.

> If this is your argument for not using Firefox, then it does read like the reason you're not using it is that it isn't popular with others.

All of my points are supporting my overall issue - that Mozilla can not execute on its mission effectively while their current CEO is in place.

The absolute failure to maintain market share is obviously quite relevant. If market share didn't matter in order to advance an ideology then we wouldn't be in this situation right now and there would be no reason for me to switch anyway.

So no, I'm not going to make a decision to support a browser that has one benefit to me - its ideology - when their leader is obviously incapable of executing effectively on that ideology. If they remove her as CEO then maybe someone who is effective can take place, at which point my support puts ideology back on the table and I'll consider switching.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#502

Post by robertoandred » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 4:20 PM UTC

bunga-bunga wrote: post #110

mrtksn wrote: post #57

Remember the "Safari is the new IE" narrative? Just because Safari doesn't support some API doesn't make it IE, IE wasn't an inferior browser at the beginning either. What made IE the IE everyone hates was its departure from standards(?) and enforcing its own vision of the web thanks to its enormous market share. On IE's case, MS probably stagnated it to prevent competition against its desktop Apps business and on Go…

IE was different things to different people. To developers, IE was the browser for which you had to spend hours debugging issues. Sounds like Safari to me. Considering you have to buy a whole device to use Safari, I’d argue it’s worse than IE was. (Sent from my Safari browser)

You had to buy a whole Windows computer to use IE.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#503

Post by robertoandred » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #337

mrtksn wrote: post #57

Remember the "Safari is the new IE" narrative? Just because Safari doesn't support some API doesn't make it IE, IE wasn't an inferior browser at the beginning either. What made IE the IE everyone hates was its departure from standards(?) and enforcing its own vision of the web thanks to its enormous market share. On IE's case, MS probably stagnated it to prevent competition against its desktop Apps business and on Go…

Safari doesn't even support adblockers. It's a DOA browser.

Where've you been the past 13 years?

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#504

Post by k__ » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 4:25 PM UTC

bjord wrote: post #238

k__ wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They often say they don't use problematic features.

right, just problematic people to lead their efforts (brendan eich)

Fair.

On the other hand, didn't he start the whole thing after getting kicked out of Mozilla?

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#505

Post by k__ » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

ohgodplsno wrote: post #184

k__ wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They often say they don't use problematic features.

They're still beholden to Google. Their own repo is a set of patches that disable some features. For now, it's mostly feature flags being turned on/off. What happens when Google starts being more hostile and makes disabling features harder ? Can Brave have the manpower to disable that, forever? What if there's a new rendering engine that's 10 times faster but it's so intertwined with a restrictive API that you can't…

I'd expect them to have the skills to fork Blink.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#506

Post by lamontcg » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

profmonocle wrote: post #311

sph wrote: post #142

What is the excuse of all people reading this thread in agreement and still using Chrome? As I mentioned elsewhere, this is preaching to the choir. A choir of Chrome users. Google wouldn't be so dominant if tech people like us would stop making lazy excuses to continue its hegemony. In Dante's Divina Commedia , there is a circle of hell for those too lazy to take a stance [1]. If it were written today, it would inclu…

For me it's the ecosystem. I like my desktop browser syncing with my Android browser, and I really like built in chromecast support in my browser. I know that Firefox has a mobile version with sync, but last time I tried it, I didn't care for it. I know there have been some attempts to bring chromecast support to Firefox via extensions, but last I tried it it was very buggy. But it's been many years since I tried eit…

Airplay to Roku seems to have finally gotten to the point where it can replace chromecast.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#507

Post by titzer » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

micheljansen wrote: post #486

titzer wrote: post #446

I don't understand the JPEG XL frackus, but that's partly because I think the Web platform should not continue being an enormous ball of mud, with everything built into the browser with no layering. Make a Wasm module (use SIMD and threads if you want) that can decode the format and render to an immutable canvas and then let the browser engine manage the pixels after that. Wasm is close enough to native speed now tha…

That sounds like a lot more work than just allowing . Are you proposing that every website comes with their own set of WASM libraries to allow its content to be rendered (each with their own bugs)? Why stop there? Just have the browser manage the canvas and deliver your own HTML rendering engine via WASM?

No, it's a fail if every website renders itself to the canvas. I think there's a middle ground where, for example, unknown mime/image types can be handed by "application level"--actually middleware or library-level--codecs supplied as Wasm extensions. The browser doesn't have to ship with them, and it doesn't have to trust them the way it does plugins, but they can hook into key places in ways that maximizes the benefit of having a rendering/layout engine, yet is extensible, fast, and secure.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#508

Post by Symmetry » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

sph wrote: post #142

What is the excuse of all people reading this thread in agreement and still using Chrome? As I mentioned elsewhere, this is preaching to the choir. A choir of Chrome users. Google wouldn't be so dominant if tech people like us would stop making lazy excuses to continue its hegemony. In Dante's Divina Commedia , there is a circle of hell for those too lazy to take a stance [1]. If it were written today, it would inclu…

I tried to switch a few times but I can't replicate my custom search experience on Firefox and I really miss browsing without it. On a new tab

'a product' and I've got an Amazon search for the product.

'w topic' and I've searched Wikipedia for the topic.

'wt place' and I've searched for the weather at a place.

'm place' and I've searched Google maps for the place.

'd topic' and I've searched DuckDuckGo for the topic.

etc.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#509

Post by colordrops » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

blibble wrote: post #488

colordrops wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brave uses chromium and they cut WEI out of their build already.

so shortly after WEI goes live in Chrome, Brave users won't be able to: - use youtube - watch "premium" video content (disney/netflix/...) - use online banking - visit sites with adwords and will be presented with endless captchas on e.g. cloudflare sites

Yes and? How does that contradict my original point?

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#510

Post by filchermcurr » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

Symmetry wrote: post #508

sph wrote: post #142

What is the excuse of all people reading this thread in agreement and still using Chrome? As I mentioned elsewhere, this is preaching to the choir. A choir of Chrome users. Google wouldn't be so dominant if tech people like us would stop making lazy excuses to continue its hegemony. In Dante's Divina Commedia , there is a circle of hell for those too lazy to take a stance [1]. If it were written today, it would inclu…

I tried to switch a few times but I can't replicate my custom search experience on Firefox and I really miss browsing without it. On a new tab 'a product' and I've got an Amazon search for the product. 'w topic' and I've searched Wikipedia for the topic. 'wt place' and I've searched for the weather at a place. 'm place' and I've searched Google maps for the place. 'd topic' and I've searched DuckDuckGo for the topic.…

Those are search shortcuts in Firefox. Pretty easy to add any that you want: Go to settings, Search, Search Shortcuts. Set the keyword to what you want for the search engine of your choice. Then you can use that directly from the address bar.