A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team • Hacker News Board

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#151

Post by madeofpalk » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:33 AM UTC

cowsandmilk wrote: post #95

tommiegannert wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IE was absolutely hated for not evolving. I'm curious what "its own vision" was, other than "do as little as possible, while Mozilla and Opera keeps pushing forward." Now, this is from the perspective of the web developer. I don't think IE was ever hated the same way from the end-user perspective. Chrome is still innovating, but now end-users hate it, because it's trying to be too much. The "new IE" hat still belongs…

> Chrome is still innovating, but now end-users hate it, because it's trying to be too much. Of the items in the link, only one is “adding functionality”. The others are (1) not supporting an image file format and (2) removing functionality from extensions. > IE was absolutely hated for not evolving IE was also hated for activex along with a number of non-standard extensions added to support Microsoft use cases. See…

It might be surprising, but that is not an exhaustive list of what Chrome has been doing "recently".

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#152

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:34 AM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #146

jadamson wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Near enough everyone here knows that. Are you even aware that Chromium is open source and Brendan Eich has said Brave won't be supporting WEI? https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1684561924191842304 Baby, bathwater, etc.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36983812

[deleted]

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#153

Post by nordsieck » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:36 AM UTC

INGSOCIALITE wrote: post #150

roenxi wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What difference do you see between a browser and an OS? A browser is an OS. They perform the same role. A context to run whatever 3rd party software. If a project is too complex for a single organisation, then break it up into 2-3 projects. That is how OSS software handles complex tasks. Someone could do a real LLVM-style browser project then we don't have to use javascript which'd catapult us all into the 21st centu…

> What difference do you see between a browser and an OS? A browser is an OS. They perform the same role. A context to run whatever 3rd party software. This is where everything has gone screwy. A browser should only be rendering and displaying html files. Browsers should be minuscule in size, and /definitely/ not run any 3rd party software.

> This is where everything has gone screwy. A browser should only be rendering and displaying html files. Browsers should be minuscule in size, and /definitely/ not run any 3rd party software.

You can try to close the door on that stable, but the horse that escaped has died of old age it's happened so long ago.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#154

Post by chickenfeed » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:38 AM UTC

have_faith wrote: post #106

dbish wrote: post #3

The problem is there are almost 0 alternatives beyond Firefox so if you don’t like their UX you’re stuck. All the “new” browsers are just chromium skins (edge, arc, etc.) Are there any real competitors building a new browser?

This a problem for me. I've been a long time Firefox user, but the UI/UX has stagnated (like all browsers) for so long. I'm enjoying using Arc at the moment because it's rethinking a lot of things that bug me about the traditional browser UI paradigm but I also know that it's a trendy startup that could either: explode, decide to change features radically at the drop of a hat (pivot), or simple do something distastef…

Out the box the squashed tabs vs the silly tab scroll thing on Firefox is horrible. But it reminds me I have too many tabs open anyway. I mainly use FF, but the UI really is behind the times. Notice MS marketing stuff like chatGPT in their browser. They are tooling it up. I want my browser to help me. The tab/workflow/history/sandboxing, I feel could all be a bit more ingrained in the desktop OS/UI.

Google is the plugin on Chrome. If you unwittingly walk blindfold into using it on say Android etc. You'll have all that Google stuff activated, and it's a real boon. Difficult to give up. Heck hard enough to sign out. You unknowingly can sign in.

Yeah there are different options, and yeah there are extensions. But why would I install an extension that basically says it can spy on every tab in my browser? And why would I even trust Google in my browser?

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#155

Post by reilnin » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:38 AM UTC

nathan_phoenix wrote: post #47

Expected a huge list and there's only 3 items there, and one of them, JPEG XL, is kinda moot because it didn't seem viable until recently after Safari started supporting it... Feel that the list could have had much more substance with the addition of webUSB, webSerial and such features which Chrome just strong armed. In the current form the list and toot don't really drive the point home...

WebUSB is pretty useful though, I know people who've used it to control all sorts of devices in an easily accessible way.

Google themselves use it for updating Android devices, via making an ADB connection from their update webpage.

I don't see how it could be classified as hostile, as it's adding a feature rather than taking features away.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#156

Post by hutzlibu » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:39 AM UTC

viscousviolin wrote: post #149

hutzlibu wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you mean is telemetry, that is something seperately. And it is also enabled by default( and also annoys me, but less so). But firefox studies means, (or can mean), that firefox will track you and sell that data to ad companies, if you "allow" it. Which everyone does, by default. This behavior from a "privacy orientated" company is close to a scam by me. Because a normal user who believes the privacy promise, won…

Selling data would be a bad move for sure. I can't seem to find anything when I search for it, do you maybe have a source I could take a look at?

If you have FF on mobile, take a look in the settings and look at "data collection" (or something alike, I have it as "Datenerhebung" in german")

There is a switch with "marketing data".

And as far as I understood, this thing came out of "Firefox studies". They branded it as experiments, but I have not seen a experiment not related to tracking. Most famously the Mr.Robo scandal, but that only gained visibility, because it was visible. Others just ran in the background. But you should be able to look, what kind of "studies" did run on your computer.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#157

Post by tibanne » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:39 AM UTC

sph wrote: post #142

What is the excuse of all people reading this thread in agreement and still using Chrome? As I mentioned elsewhere, this is preaching to the choir. A choir of Chrome users. Google wouldn't be so dominant if tech people like us would stop making lazy excuses to continue its hegemony. In Dante's Divina Commedia , there is a circle of hell for those too lazy to take a stance [1]. If it were written today, it would inclu…

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Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#158

Post by parabyl » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:41 AM UTC

SCdF wrote: post #58

TheRoque wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is brave shilled so much ? I don't think I recalled seeing as many ads from a browser other than brave. Using a browser that claims to be the new savior of the internet, "security and privacy focused", while being related to a crypto and heavily marketing their product... Meh.

> while being related to a crypto There is your answer

I had always assumed it was due to Brendan Eich being the face of the project. Or the built-in adblocking. It's my preference for these reasons as a chromium default - I don't know anyone using Brave who touches the crypto stuff.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#159

Post by onurcel » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:42 AM UTC

tommiegannert wrote: post #64

mrtksn wrote: post #57

Remember the "Safari is the new IE" narrative? Just because Safari doesn't support some API doesn't make it IE, IE wasn't an inferior browser at the beginning either. What made IE the IE everyone hates was its departure from standards(?) and enforcing its own vision of the web thanks to its enormous market share. On IE's case, MS probably stagnated it to prevent competition against its desktop Apps business and on Go…

IE was absolutely hated for not evolving. I'm curious what "its own vision" was, other than "do as little as possible, while Mozilla and Opera keeps pushing forward." Now, this is from the perspective of the web developer. I don't think IE was ever hated the same way from the end-user perspective. Chrome is still innovating, but now end-users hate it, because it's trying to be too much. The "new IE" hat still belongs…

To be accurate, IE was not hated by "end-users". It was hated by web developers (understandably) reluctant to support non-standard apis and by informed people.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#160

Post by ChoHag » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 10:43 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #87

kramerger wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have all kinds of weird excuses for not using Firefox. Sometimes it feels like "Sure, Chrome sold my kids data to human traffickers. But I can't switch to Firefox because I really _need_ MIDI-2 over websocket support" Sure, FF is not perfect but a lot of issues is due to sites being optimised for webkit and that will not change as long as Chrome has 80% marketshare. You need to sacrifice a little for freedom.

> that will not change as long as Chrome has 80% marketshare. You need to sacrifice a little for freedom. And herein lies the rub. 20% of people, at best, will sacrifice convenience for freedom. Firefox and Chrome overtook IE because they were move convenient to use (Firefox had tabs and extensions, Chrome had a more reliable multi-process architecture and more CSS/JS/... features faster).

IE didn't die until YouTube publicly dropped support for it.