A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children • Hacker News Board

Re: A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children

#91

Post by Cushman » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 5:17 PM UTC

seclorum wrote: post #31

I really, really, really wish there was some way to disable the Home button on my iPad. My 19-month old and 4-year old kids, who absolutely love to sit with me and play with the iPad, simply find it irresistible to press that button. And when we're watching a movie, its a sure-fire way to ruin the whole experience. If it were lockable so that it didn't do anything, they wouldn't press it. Come to think of it, the sli…

DIY solutions aside, it seems like a thin, adhesive strip of hard plastic over the home button could provide just the right resistance to keep a child from idly or accidentally hitting Home, while still allowing an adult (or a kid who really, really wants to) to operate it normally.

Has anyone experimented with something like that?

Edit: Just tried it out a bit-- a strip of milk jug almost does the trick, deflecting softer presses while still allowing use. A little on the soft side, probably. Not sure what DIY adhesive you could count on being removable, though...

Re: A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children

#92

Post by coob » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 5:19 PM UTC

On in-app purchases:

We have an app that is targeted at kids aged 3-5 (I don't work directly on it). It is currently in the top 10 free education apps and regularly holds a spot in the top 5 grossing education apps in the UK (we currently only have UK audio). It has an average rating of 4.5 stars, with over 100 genuine 5 star reviews from satisfied parents.

The app is split into 10 topics, with the first free. The rest can be unlocked for $13.99.

It uses in-app purchasing as providing the app for free with the first section available to all is the best way we can show off our product. It isn't targeted at the kid, it is aimed at the parent of the child. In no way do we try and trick anyone into a purchase.

This approach has been overwhelmingly successful.

I honestly think the app would've got nowhere if we'd stuck it up there as a paid app for $13.99. We could have gone for separate apps, but that's much harder to maintain and market (trust me - the product I work on has over 100 versions on the app store, we're migrating to 1 with iAP).

Re: A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children

#93

Post by ArtB » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 5:24 PM UTC

ja27 wrote: post #29

Karunamon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>mostly meant to exploit the easy clicking of kids with the default "no barrier" purchase mechanism. How do you define a "scummy in-app purchase that's a scourge meant to exploit kids" from a non-scummy in app purchase?

If there's a $1.99 "20 additional game levels" after you finish the first 20, that's not scummy. If there's a $99 in-app purchase (Basket of Smurfberries), that's scummy.

Sadly, that is just people responding to the market conditions. Most people want things near to free, so the initial price must be low or else you'll get ignored. Then, you need some whales to actually generate revenue. Surely there is some CEO you'll happily pay $99 bucks to shut his kids up.

Re: A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children

#94

Post by mwidarto » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 5:25 PM UTC

I develop an educational app geared for kids and just like some of the people here. I dislike ads, in app purchase, external link etc so I made sure that my app doesn't have any of those and price it at $0.99. I keep updating it based on user feedback to make the app better.

It's good to read that there are a lot of parent here that say they won't purchase any app with ads and/or inapp purchases for their kids but I think majority of the people don't care.

Most of the top 15 apps in my app category/subject are free with ads and/or in app purchases. They can afford to make it free because they make money from ads/in-app purchases and because they're free they get a lot more download that keeps their ranking higher burying app like mine.

It's hard to compete in that kind of condition but I for now, I can't see my self using ads/in-app purchases in any of my app. I will try to compete by bringing better qualities apps.

Re: A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children

#95

Post by babar » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 5:26 PM UTC

redcircle wrote: post #69

veidr wrote: post #48

I'm curious: don't any other people here think 2-year-old kids shouldn't be playing iPad games at all ? I'm convinced that watching TV is harmful to a child's intellectual development. (And there's an established body of evidence to support that.) As a kid, I hated my hippie Montessori teacher mom for allowing me only one hour of TV per week as a kid in the late 70s and early 80s (elementary school; I usually chose t…

> I'm convinced that watching TV is harmful to a child's intellectual development. (And there's an established body of evidence to support that.) There might be evidence that early exposure to television, before the child's neurological development is ready to deal with it, is harmful. But I'm not aware of "an established body of evidence" proving that TV is harmful. Do you have sources? I'm very interested in seeing…

You should take a look at the research - there is established evidence for the impact of television on language development. The book NurtureShock gives a nice overview, but if you want to go directly to the research papers it looks like there are plenty of papers like this:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/128/5/1040.abs...

The problem with TV in particular seems to be the lack of interactivity. Children learn best by getting meaningful feedback from other people, and television cannot provide that. iPad apps and computers should be able to overcome that limitation, but I think we're early in the process of understanding the most effective ways to provide that for children, especially young children.

Re: A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children

#96

Post by S_A_P » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 5:34 PM UTC

smashing wrote: post #83

S_A_P wrote: post #25

I think in app purchases for apps targeting users under 13 is a really bad idea. Even if there isn't some dark premise behind it, I feel like an asshole every time I tell my son "no" I wont buy you extra {whatever} for your game at just 2.99. Kids games should be reasonably priced(0-5 dollars) and not monetize with ads or upsells.

In app purchasing is used by many developers as a kind of shareware. What's so insidious about try before you buy?

I don't think there is anything insidious when you are targeting the potential phone owner. However a 4 and a half year old playing my phone feels differently about in app purchasing and has little concept of money and value.

Re: A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children

#97

Post by mpstx » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 5:34 PM UTC

gbhn wrote: post #90

mpstx wrote: post #80

A plea to parents purchasing iPad Apps for children: Stop buying apps that do stuff like this. If you see that an app has a $99 in-app berry purchase, don't download or buy it. If you see that an app encourages children to poke and sling animals and destroy things, don't buy it. Do a small bit of research to see if the app was designed with your child's age in mind. Buy apps from trusted sources like http://tocaboca.…

Thanks! I've been a bit frustrated at the difficulty in finding good engaging games for young kids. My son is older and there's quite a bit he enjoys -- puzzles, world-building, etc. For my daughter, who's younger, there seems precious little.

Totally sympathize. It can indeed be frustrating. The top lists aren't exactly structured to facilitate finding the best apps for a kid given their current developmental stage. You can google some resources and lists online, find some curated marketplaces that are making lists of apps appropriate for building certain skills, and appropriate for certain ages, but it's all an extra step outside the extreme convenience of the on-device app store.

Re: A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children

#98

Post by hrabago » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 5:38 PM UTC

therandomguy wrote: post #87

veidr wrote: post #48

I'm curious: don't any other people here think 2-year-old kids shouldn't be playing iPad games at all ? I'm convinced that watching TV is harmful to a child's intellectual development. (And there's an established body of evidence to support that.) As a kid, I hated my hippie Montessori teacher mom for allowing me only one hour of TV per week as a kid in the late 70s and early 80s (elementary school; I usually chose t…

>And there's an established body of evidence to support that I don't think there is any evidence to support that at all. Do you have a source?

Recent HN discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3126020

Re: A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children

#99

Post by redcircle » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 5:43 PM UTC

babar wrote: post #95

redcircle wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm convinced that watching TV is harmful to a child's intellectual development. (And there's an established body of evidence to support that.) There might be evidence that early exposure to television, before the child's neurological development is ready to deal with it, is harmful. But I'm not aware of "an established body of evidence" proving that TV is harmful. Do you have sources? I'm very interested in seeing…

You should take a look at the research - there is established evidence for the impact of television on language development. The book NurtureShock gives a nice overview, but if you want to go directly to the research papers it looks like there are plenty of papers like this: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/128/5/1040.abs... The problem with TV in particular seems to be the lack of interactivity. Childre…

Thanks. That particular example is about children under two years. Do you have anything for older children? Under two years falls in my category of being neurologically unprepared to deal with the stimuli from TV. But what about at 4, or 6? The children are in a very different development stage, and (from my current, but always adapting, perspective) it becomes a balance of negatives and positives. For example, I have seen how TV accelerates understanding of social situations --- it is like having exercises at the end of a calculus chapter, but for preparing for the variety of social situations one will encounter, and learning to account for someone else's perspective.

Re: A Dad’s Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children

#100

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 5:44 PM UTC

ArtB wrote: post #89

huhtenberg wrote: post #41

Spot on regarding the in-app purchases. I have a rule of giving 1 star rating to any kid's game that has them regardless of how well it's done and if my kids actually enjoy the non-gimmicky part. Milking parents by making their kids beg and nag them is an unethical way to earn money.

> Milking parents by making their kids beg and nag them is an unethical way to earn money. I believe that the primary way the market for children's toys and goods works, if you watch The Corporation they interview a psychologist that explicitly helps exploit this behaviour. So, you might find it unethical, but its the norm and avoiding it is like shopping for clothes that used no-sweatshop labour.

[deleted]