Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

mstdn.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 511 posts

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#421

Post by ndriscoll »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #411
bluGill wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all adds up. If you only have a Starbucks on special occasions it isn't much, but some people have daily habits. Likewise a lot of people have the most expensive cable plan which is a lot more money. Phone plans can also get a lot more expensive if you but top of the line phones every couple years.

Ok, could you do the math then? Try to see how many Starbucks coffees you have to forgo to afford a down payment at a median house in the US.

The current median home sale price in the US is $416100[0], so with 3% down for a first time homebuyer ($12500), and assuming a Starbucks coffee costs $3.50 including tax, it'd take ~3570 coffees, or a little under 10 years of a daily habit.

That ignores any interest on the savings. So yeah it seems like "small" regular spending in your 20s (e.g. $100/mo total) can add up to an entire down payment in your early 30s.

Alternatively, assuming your rent would be at least $1000/month, you might live with your parents for an extra 13 months (or fewer for higher rents) before moving out on your own.

[0] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#422

Post by qaq »

supertrope wrote: post #415
randomdata wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why isn’t everyone doing it? Assuming the figures are accurate, perhaps because most everyone doesn't want to? Some love it, but sitting in a truck day in, day out, far from civilization while only infrequently coming back home to see your family is not for most. You could say the same about programming. Any five year old can program, but most people have absolutely no desire to do it, thus it takes a whole whack l…

>Assuming the figures are accurate I find those figures hard to believe. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/h...

"Owner Operator"

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#423

Post by tmnvix »

usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

> If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets.

Slave/indentured servant -> live-in servant -> servant -> service worker -> self-employed service worker (contractor)

At each step along this 'evolution', the beneficiaries of the labour have freed themselves from the burden of supplying some of the resources needed by the worker (shelter, food, holidays, sick pay, health insurance, safety and other equipment, education/training, etc). In theory this has been balanced by increased monetary compensation. When that compensation isn't enough for the worker to meet these needs, what should we expect? That they become indebted?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#424

Post by Exoristos »

vsareto wrote: post #250
hollerith wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could you explain? Someone who understood basic economics wouldn't assert that investors are ruining the housing market for individual family buyers without explaining how the housing market or one particular housing market is different from all the other markets were investors are helpful for bringing products and services to individuals and families. I am sympathetic for example to the argument that the housing ma…

>Someone who understood basic economics wouldn't assert that investors are ruining the housing market for individual family buyers without explaining how the housing market or one particular housing market is different from all the other markets were investors are helpful for bringing products and services to individuals and families. So the housing market is different because housing serves as shelter. Investors own…

So by "basic economics" you mean the evil-is-magically-good school of economics. I disagree with you that HN is lacking in that area.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#425

Post by wak90 »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #284
cypherpunks01 wrote: post #22

I found 2011 to be the most enlightening quote: > Man, what a weird week. Unless it's on their own terms, it seems nobody wants to work anymore. It's the only one with any acknowledgement that agreeable terms may actually be needed in order to attract people to work. It doesn't take a PhD to figure this out! Utah Phillips, one of my favorite storytellers and all-around anarchist and hobo has a line I was reminded of:…

This Utah Phillips quote sounds like it came right out of Atlas Shrugged.

My goodness what an insulting thing to say about the man

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#426

Post by toofy »

jack_pp wrote: post #222
kjkjadksj wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work from home is literally an employee subsidized office. Who pays for the internet? You do. Who pays for the electicity? You do. Who pays for water? You do. Who pays for the ac during the heat of the day? You do. Who pays for square footage dedicated to a desk? You do. Who fixes networking it related issues? You do. Who is the custodian and building maintainer? Also you. Companies save money hand over fist by shove…

You already have those things. Network rarely like maybe once a year goes down at home, if your company doesn't provide food then you either order and the cost is the same or you can cook and it's cheaper. You are right, companies save money and you save commute time. It's win/win. That's if you like working from home which I don't.

> You already have those things.

i don’t even know where to begin with this… so many people absolutely do not have an in home office, do not understand networking, don’t cool their homes/turn their heat down when at the office, don’t use home electricity while at work, etc…

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#427

Post by SideQuark »

Turskarama wrote: post #418
SideQuark wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good conditions didn't diminish. People now buy vastly bigger and more things. Want to live on one salary like a 1950 person, with 1950 level goods, you can. Also more classes of people now have much better things: women, minorities. Labor is not the only input to productivity, so there is zero reason labor rewards should match productivity. As capital expenses increased to obtain modern productivity gains, the rewar…

>Want to live on one salary like a 1950 person, with 1950 level goods, you can. No, you can't. People lived in smaller houses, but the vast majority of the increase of property values is _land_. If you want a house that's anywhere near as cheap as the average was 50 years ago, you get to live somewhere with no jobs. That is not equivalent. As for everything else, the majority of the modern day luxuries we enjoy amoun…

The vast majority is not land. Here's [1] inflation adjusted land cost per acre over the last 50 years. Pick a piece of land at median 1950 sizes and the increase is around $500 in today's dollars. Now please cite why you claim the vast majority of the increase is land.

Want to read what did increase? Houses got bigger as I stated [2].

[1] https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/charts/55910/farmrealestate...

[2] https://www.supermoney.com/inflation-adjusted-home-prices/

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#429

Post by toofy »

justin_oaks wrote: post #6

To be honest, people generally don't want to work. In what way is this surprising?

im likely being too pedantic here so apologies up front if this is the case. if by “work” you mean, sacrificing your own dreams to make a boss’ dreams come true, then we’re probably on the same page. but if by “work” you mean, doing yard work, passion projects, etc… i’m not sure i agree. my parents are heading into retirement in a few years and i’m deeply concerned they won’t know what to do with themselves without work keeping them occupied. they’re both extremely lucky in that they immensely enjoy and are passionate about their work, tho.

even in my free time i have so many projects that take work but i absolutely love them.

i just wanted to chime in that people feel genuinely energized by work if it’s something they care about, something that matters to them, feeds their soul or whatever phrase you prefer. again, sorry to be the obnoxious pedant.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#430

Post by polygamous_bat »

ndriscoll wrote: post #421
polygamous_bat wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, could you do the math then? Try to see how many Starbucks coffees you have to forgo to afford a down payment at a median house in the US.

The current median home sale price in the US is $416100[0], so with 3% down for a first time homebuyer ($12500), and assuming a Starbucks coffee costs $3.50 including tax, it'd take ~3570 coffees, or a little under 10 years of a daily habit. That ignores any interest on the savings. So yeah it seems like "small" regular spending in your 20s (e.g. $100/mo total) can add up to an entire down payment in your early 30s.…

Now, could you add on the housing price inflation over the last 10 years? Your calculation assumes housing prices stay flat for the next 10 years, which is a tall order.

Also, what would happen to people with not so well off parents?

Post reply on HN