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The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

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Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#411

Post by polygamous_bat »

bluGill wrote: post #352
Tycho wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that actually true? Subscriptions £30 pm Starbucks £40 pm Phone contract £20 pm ISP £30 pm That’s £120 pm, or £1440 annually. Doesn’t seem like it would make that much of a dent. Probably the number one thing you’d need to do is cut down on food costs, which is doable, to be fair, as it’s quite easy to spend 10x or 100x more than what you need to stay fed.

It all adds up. If you only have a Starbucks on special occasions it isn't much, but some people have daily habits. Likewise a lot of people have the most expensive cable plan which is a lot more money. Phone plans can also get a lot more expensive if you but top of the line phones every couple years.

Ok, could you do the math then? Try to see how many Starbucks coffees you have to forgo to afford a down payment at a median house in the US.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#412

Post by polygamous_bat »

SergeAx wrote: post #318
coldtea wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's important to note that the good old days of a working man being able to support a family of five was only true for a brief period of history in a handful of elite countries. In most of the world, and for most of human history, it hasn't been the case that any single person working 40 hours a week could provide a luxurious lifestyle for a large family. Keyword "luxurious". People first and foremost want…

Roof, food, clothes, furniture, mobile phone with internet plan, flat TV, streaming subscription...

How many streaming subscriptions do you need to forgo to have a down payment on a house? Could you please do the math?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#413

Post by carlosjobim »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #171
Borg3 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude really? The cost of working from home is absolutly minimal. You gain much more than you loss. You do NOT waste time and money commuting. You can eat healtier food. You can take break when you really need it. People who say that they need to get compesation for WFH cant do basic math...

Work from home is literally an employee subsidized office. Who pays for the internet? You do. Who pays for the electicity? You do. Who pays for water? You do. Who pays for the ac during the heat of the day? You do. Who pays for square footage dedicated to a desk? You do. Who fixes networking it related issues? You do. Who is the custodian and building maintainer? Also you. Companies save money hand over fist by shove…

Did you get paid for your commute?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#414

Post by [deleted] »

SideQuark wrote: post #387
usrbinbash wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gimme a good argument why good conditions should diminish, or deteriorate, despite the fact that workforce productivity, as well as corporate margins, have been growing steadily ever since.

Good conditions didn't diminish. People now buy vastly bigger and more things. Want to live on one salary like a 1950 person, with 1950 level goods, you can. Also more classes of people now have much better things: women, minorities. Labor is not the only input to productivity, so there is zero reason labor rewards should match productivity. As capital expenses increased to obtain modern productivity gains, the rewar…

[deleted]

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#415

Post by supertrope »

randomdata wrote: post #187
supertrope wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that gross revenue before paying for diesel, the loan on the truck, the employer side of Social Security tax, health insurance? If it’s as simple as you say to earn $160K-$180K why isn’t everyone doing it? In an efficient market arbitrage opportunities usually close quickly.

> why isn’t everyone doing it? Assuming the figures are accurate, perhaps because most everyone doesn't want to? Some love it, but sitting in a truck day in, day out, far from civilization while only infrequently coming back home to see your family is not for most. You could say the same about programming. Any five year old can program, but most people have absolutely no desire to do it, thus it takes a whole whack l…

>Assuming the figures are accurate

I find those figures hard to believe. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/h...

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#416

Post by Paul-Craft »

webnrrd2k wrote: post #302
irrational wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company would call that taking a mental health day, which is considered a legitimate reason for not coming into work.

I had a coworker who would say that they were having eye problems -- as in "I just can see coming in today".

Once or twice, I've used "car trouble," as in "trouble is, I ain't gettin' in the car to go to work today."

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#417

Post by nine_zeros »

djangelic wrote: post #405
nine_zeros wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is on point for me. I don't come into work to "invent" my own work. Management is expected to know what workers should work on, make sure it has the right ROI for the company, and that the rewards of that work flow to the workers. At many FAANG-like companies, engineers are supposed to find "scope" themselves to keep their own job? Are you crazy? What the fuck is management doing in these companies?

I believe management has in many cases lost focus on strategy because they are either not driven as well since they also are not fully invested in the company’s overall vision or are so overwhelmed with meetings that they simply don’t have time to even understand what their subordinates actually do in technical terms, much less strategize.

But they are overwhelmed because they are spending too much time on performance evaluations than on project management. If they actually cut down performance evaluations by 80%, time will reappear magically.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#418

Post by Turskarama »

SideQuark wrote: post #387
usrbinbash wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gimme a good argument why good conditions should diminish, or deteriorate, despite the fact that workforce productivity, as well as corporate margins, have been growing steadily ever since.

Good conditions didn't diminish. People now buy vastly bigger and more things. Want to live on one salary like a 1950 person, with 1950 level goods, you can. Also more classes of people now have much better things: women, minorities. Labor is not the only input to productivity, so there is zero reason labor rewards should match productivity. As capital expenses increased to obtain modern productivity gains, the rewar…

>Want to live on one salary like a 1950 person, with 1950 level goods, you can.

No, you can't.

People lived in smaller houses, but the vast majority of the increase of property values is _land_. If you want a house that's anywhere near as cheap as the average was 50 years ago, you get to live somewhere with no jobs. That is not equivalent.

As for everything else, the majority of the modern day luxuries we enjoy amounts to a rounding error next to the actual necessities that people also had back then. Consumer electronics are _cheap_, not having them will not meaningfully increase anyones wealth.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#419

Post by alisonatwork »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #343
alisonatwork wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's important to note that the good old days of a working man being able to support a family of five was only true for a brief period of history in a handful of elite countries. In most of the world, and for most of human history, it hasn't been the case that any single person working 40 hours a week could provide a luxurious lifestyle for a large family. While some lament the loss of this golden age their g…

You talk about the "relative privilege" of middle class people in developed countries as though the cause for their declining standard of living was other people having more, as if their "slice of pie" was being cut in pieces and given away. That's not how economic growth works. When China and India grow, the total productive power of the world economy grows. So now the world ought to be able to support "luxurious" s…

In China alone, hundreds of millions of people now have a middle class lifestyle that 50 years ago did not. I suspect that far outweighs the number of people in countries that were already developed 50 years ago who fell from a middle class lifestyle back to subsistence farming.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#420

Post by alisonatwork »

anigbrowl wrote: post #256
alisonatwork wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post I am responding to mentioned providing a family of five with a self-owned house, a car, a couple of vacations per year and a comfortable retirement. To many people around the world - still today - that would be considered a luxurious lifestyle. You are right that it's possible for one person to support a family. For most people working in the tech industry here on HN they could probably figure out a way to d…

If it were so simple to achieve, we would not see child labor. You have it backwards. We wouldn't see any child labor if employers weren't trying to cut corners on wages while the people at the top of the economic pyramid rake in billions. Ownership is way overcompensated in this society, most owners/CEOs do not provide that much value and are just collecting economic rents because they occupy a position in social/ec…

I agree that wealth inequality is a problem, and I fully support billionaire taxes and wealth caps. If we were to take all that stored wealth and redistribute it equally amongst the rest of the world, each person might get around US$10000. That would provide enough to take everyone currently living in absolute poverty out of it for a decade or so. Would that solve child labor? Perhaps. Would it allow Americans to afford a house and car and freedom from work for 4 out of every 5 people? I don't think so. So I think the problem is bigger than just the inequality between the fantastically wealthy and everyone else, if the goal is for everyone to have the "golden age" lifestyle.
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