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If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

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Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#651

Post by brailsafe »

voisin wrote: post #121
ericmay wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then try walking in a new neighbourhood with barely any shade. It is awful. Neighborhoods you’d typically want to walk in do have shade because they were all built a long time ago and there is somewhere for you to walk to. Suburban neighborhoods aren’t designed that way which is why even if there was shade there’s still nowhere to walk to. I do agree we need more trees planted and more shade. Unfortunately a lot of…

> Neighborhoods you’d typically want to walk in do have shade because they were all built a long time ago and there is somewhere for you to walk to. Suburban neighborhoods aren’t designed that way which is why even if there was shade there’s still nowhere to walk to. I agree with what you are saying generally but my point stands even for urban cores, which tend to have little to no trees (or many trees but not mature…

I personally can't think of many urban areas where this is a real problem in the U.S or Canada that I've been, but it is where it is. I did a small paper on the impact of population growth in Dar Es Salaam, and trees had a significant impact on how people were using the streets. In such extreme heat, shade is crucial.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#652

Post by ttymck »

aeternum wrote: post #635
ttymck wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What don't you like about the word dignity in this context?

It is imprecise and unmeasurable. Do intersections that implement pedestrian scramble somehow increase dignity? I don't know. They do increase pedestrian safety and pretty clearly give pedestrians priority over vehicles via the exclusive use of the intersection for awhile.

I think you'd be hard pressed to argue improving safety does NOT improve dignity, but I see your point.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#653

Post by pandaman »

scrollaway wrote: post #593
sershe wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I don't want to! I literally just walked to the store and it was in absoute perfect conditions - we wanted to go for a walk anyway, the weather is perfect (sunny but not hot), the store is 10min walk from my house, the neighborhood is nice and not drive-thru so there is ~0 non-local traffic. The plan was we go for a walk, and pop by a store and get one item. But as usual it never ends up being that way, so we had…

The US is too far gone for this to make sense. “Walking to get groceries”, I mean jeez this means something utterly different in the US vs Europe. Here, walking to get groceries means depending on what I need, I walk down the road to get some daily fresh produce, or a few minutes more to get more variety of non perishables, cleaning products etc. It’s a lovely walk, it’s relaxing, and I come back with at most 3-4kg.…

I can't speak for all people in the US but my family is not content with selection in a single store. We buy different kinds of items in different stores. And I mean big stores, with big parking lots and dozens of isles. It is also not very clear that you spend less time shopping: you cannot possibly live off 3-4kg of food for a week or two so you must shop very frequently.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#654

Post by drdo »

mxkopy wrote: post #620
DANmode wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can look very different. Burdens can be nonobvious.

I don’t think anyone with financial burdens is spending $500 on a bike and $150 on a kit. And if they are that’s more of a mental issue than a financial one

Not very relevant but I just thought it was funny how it's obvious that you don't do cycling when those are the prices you came up with as an example :)

It's considerably more expensive than that.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#655

Post by jjav »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #645
jjav wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NY/Chicago/London/Paris/Tokyo you can conceivably and easily nip out to a grocer's, bodega, cafe or pub within 10 minutes of where you are. This keeps coming up on HN but it's not as absolutist as it's made to be. There are lots and lots of suburban places in the US where you can walk to things as you describe. NY/Chicago/London/Paris/Tokyo do not have a monopoly on walkability. I live in very suburban (approaching…

I think people are criticizing "American suburbia", not a a truly suburban form which is more urban than a rural form and less urban than an urban form. I live in what I call a "bike suburb". While the grocery and a couple other businesses are a 7-8 min walk away on a multi use path, the rest of the town opens up in a 5 min bike. Likewise I'm a 15-20 min drive away from tons of nature, and if we do need to drive arou…

> Since you're in Silicon Valley, you can probably think of tons of places like that.

I sort of can't, which is why I always express doubt about these suburbs where one must supposedly drive 30 minutes to the nearest store (not a quote from this thread, but one that I've seen many times on HN).

I've lived also in south San Jose, Cambpell and Cupertino. In all those I could also walk to supermarkets and many other businesses.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#656

Post by climb_stealth »

mtalantikite wrote: post #622
sershe wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I don't want to! I literally just walked to the store and it was in absoute perfect conditions - we wanted to go for a walk anyway, the weather is perfect (sunny but not hot), the store is 10min walk from my house, the neighborhood is nice and not drive-thru so there is ~0 non-local traffic. The plan was we go for a walk, and pop by a store and get one item. But as usual it never ends up being that way, so we had…

> And what if it was 100F, or 32F, or raining, or I didn't want to go for a walk, or I needed to get some large items like sugar or rice or a gallon of milk or a lot of beer for a party? As a New Yorker, you just described daily life here? It’s really not a big deal — things are so close you can take multiple trips if you need to. Get some canvas bags. Plus since everything is so close you end up just doing smaller t…

> I’ve certainly had people visit who think of themselves as fit and they get gassed out by regular New York walking life

It's interesting how things become normal once you do it every day. I used to live in a fifth floor apartment without lift. Quite a few stairs to climb. Three things come to my mind.

a) You very quickly learn not to forget anything when leaving the house.

b) There is some perverse sense of satisfaction in having guests over and walking up the stairs together; and purposefully keeping a calm breath whilst the guests are wheezing and complaining.

c) Some tradesman was working on one of the floors. I will never forget the sight of him carrying something heavy up those stairs whilst practically breathing through the cigarette in the corner of his mouth.

For very legitimate reasons life like this is not for everybody. But I would say for able-bodied healthy people it would be good to have a bit of regular forced exercise like that.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#657

Post by fragmede »

sdeframond wrote: post #567
paradox460 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's used much the same in NYC and some other than areas. A quick tap to say "hey I'm here and I'm doing something" like changing lanes or pulling out of traffic Aside: I really wish cars had two different horns. A nice little boop horn, to say "hey I'm here" or "lights green buddy" and then the big honking thing that says "you nearly hit me by rolling through that stop sign, pay better attention"

> I really wish cars had two different horn I really wish cars didn't have horns. Or that horns would be louder inside than outside for drivers to "feel" it accordingly. 99% of the honks I hear are useless to prevent any incoming danger (too late, honking to say "hi", honking to express displeasure...) I've used the horn once in the last 10 years, and I shouldn't have.

If you want to expand your mind, travel to south east Asia or India for a bit and see a different way of how billions of people live and drive every day.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#658

Post by ChainOfFools »

mxkopy wrote: post #620
DANmode wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can look very different. Burdens can be nonobvious.

I don’t think anyone with financial burdens is spending $500 on a bike and $150 on a kit. And if they are that’s more of a mental issue than a financial one

$500 is unfortunately now the floor price for mountain bikes, even a Walmart entry level brand.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#659

Post by elliottkember »

sershe wrote: post #503
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not gonna lie, having a 10 minute walk ruined by carrying a bag home sounds like you maybe need to deadlift less and cardio more or something. Or maybe get better bags? Walking to stores is an advantage because it allows for a density of services unavailable if parking lots are a serious consideration for businesses. I can go to my local convenience store, and my barber, and a no-waste shop, and my local bar, all in…

I mountaineer too, it's just a chore to walk with groceries, esp. if the weather is bad and you have to do it every 3 days given how little one can carry. I think I mentioned the drinking aspect in the original comment. I could do all of these things by car, probably faster too... except drinking. So I guess it depends on how often one drinks :)

> I mountaineer too, it's just a chore to walk with groceries

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#660

Post by Karrot_Kream »

jjav wrote: post #655
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are criticizing "American suburbia", not a a truly suburban form which is more urban than a rural form and less urban than an urban form. I live in what I call a "bike suburb". While the grocery and a couple other businesses are a 7-8 min walk away on a multi use path, the rest of the town opens up in a 5 min bike. Likewise I'm a 15-20 min drive away from tons of nature, and if we do need to drive arou…

> Since you're in Silicon Valley, you can probably think of tons of places like that. I sort of can't, which is why I always express doubt about these suburbs where one must supposedly drive 30 minutes to the nearest store (not a quote from this thread, but one that I've seen many times on HN). I've lived also in south San Jose, Cambpell and Cupertino. In all those I could also walk to supermarkets and many other bus…

San Leandro, Union City, Fremont, and further East like Danville and Pleasanton can be pretty bad to walk around in. The West part of the Bay has generally been wealthier and historically had more pedestrian affordances. I'm pretty sure all of these factors go into making the Bay as a whole such an expensive and desirable place to live.
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