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Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

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Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#271

Post by thisgoesnowhere »

shaunxcode wrote: post #144
thisgoesnowhere wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are overcorrecting to the extremes. You don't have to be sober or crippling drunk you can have a drink once in a while and it's fine.

It’s also ok to be completely sober. In general if someone tells you they are sober it’s not a great idea to suggest they have a drink on occasion.

I'm saying that I don't think we need to operate at the maximums and say all drinking is bad or drinking is only good.

You can drink or don't drink I don't care. I'm saying that you don't need to feel bad about what you do as long as you like it.

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#272

Post by thisgoesnowhere »

barbazoo wrote: post #206
thisgoesnowhere wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are overcorrecting to the extremes. You don't have to be sober or crippling drunk you can have a drink once in a while and it's fine.

There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with overcorrecting towards sobriety or is there an objective downside I'm missing?

Alcohol is a social lubricant in small quantities. I think the overcorrected to sobriety people forget that.

I like a glass of wine with dinner for example I don't need to get plastered after for that to be enjoyable. If that shaves a year off my life I'm fine with that.

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#273

Post by thisgoesnowhere »

yogurthewise wrote: post #146
thisgoesnowhere wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are overcorrecting to the extremes. You don't have to be sober or crippling drunk you can have a drink once in a while and it's fine.

Agreed, I didn't stop drinking, but I cut way back on alcohol. I've found it greatly improved my health + well being.

Exactly! I think most people who drink need to cut back, also go do things with your friends that aren't just getting drinks.

Its more fun to go for a hike or pickup a hobby/sport than to always drink. But that doesn't mean you can't have a ice cold beer on a beach with your friends. Moderation is the spice of life.

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#274

Post by klardotsh »

ffhhttt wrote: post #251
_yb2s wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an absurd comparison… crack is no where near as harmful as alcohol

Clearly you’re bot talking about per capita harm?

I don't know about "per-capita harm" but based on some loose research and opinions of doctors, alcohol is overwhelmingly more harmful overall (to self and to society) than anything else. The next drug on the list is heroin but it's not even close, followed closely by crack, and then crystal meth is an extremely distant fourth place followed by cocaine. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/206300#2

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#275

Post by getpost »

01100011 wrote: post #196

There are many other alcohols, 2M2B( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tert-Amyl_alcohol ) for example, which are "alcohol without the hangover" in a sense. I seem to remember a scientist looking into ways to deliver these alcohols(absorbed in cellulose IIRC). You'll note that these chemicals, like alcohol, can also lead to overdoses and since they are much more potent it is even more difficult to ensure one does not ove…

This comment gives me an excuse to post (again) about one of my favorite books, Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers: The Secrets of Ancient Fermentation by Stephen Harrod Buhner (1998). Chapter 7 is about Psychotropic and Highly Inebriating Beers, including myrica gale, wild rosemary, yarrow, wormwood, clary sage, broom, hanbane, darnel, saffron, and wild lettuce.

https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Herbal-Healing-Beers-Fermentat...

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#276

Post by credit_guy »

ramraj07 wrote: post #216
01100011 wrote: post #196

There are many other alcohols, 2M2B( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tert-Amyl_alcohol ) for example, which are "alcohol without the hangover" in a sense. I seem to remember a scientist looking into ways to deliver these alcohols(absorbed in cellulose IIRC). You'll note that these chemicals, like alcohol, can also lead to overdoses and since they are much more potent it is even more difficult to ensure one does not ove…

I hope you can see that your friends are alcoholics. Drinking 18 of any alcoholic drink shouldn't be considered normal as much as the surroundings might indicate otherwise.

I did some math, because 18 is a big number, and I had to wrap my head around it.

So, Coors Light has an ABV of 4.2%. When people talk about "drinks", one beer is 12 fl oz at 5% [1]. A can of Coors Light has 12 fl oz, but at 4.2%, so 18 such cans correspond to only 15 "drinks". Also, equal to 3 full bottles (750 ml each) of Prosecco at 12% ABV.

[1] https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/alcohol-...

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#277

Post by aeternum »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #52
yawnbox wrote: post #22

Acetaldehyde (from consuming alcoholic beverages)(1) is a Group 1 carcinogen, along with things like Asbestos. Does it fix that? [1] https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/understanding-...

Yes and... This is not ambiguous: There is no safe amount that does not affect health.[1] "We cannot talk about a so-called safe level of alcohol use. It doesn’t matter how much you drink – the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage. The only thing that we can say for sure is that the more you drink, the more harmful it is – or, in other words, the less you drink, the safer…

This is based off a meta analysis and the problem with those is you can filter the data to prove almost anything you want.

Many other studies have found a j-curve effect. So there is ambiguity, and there likely will be until someone does a long-term randomized controlled trial which is incredibly difficult.

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#278

Post by lm28469 »

Moomoomoo309 wrote: post #160
klardotsh wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol and caffeine are the only two drugs I can think of (okay, in some circles maybe cannabis too) where the response to "I cut this thing out of my life" is often "why?" or "you know you could still do a little?" One exercise to illustrate the ridiculousness and disrespect of phrases like that is to replace "alcohol" with "crack". "I don't do crack anymore" would basically never be responded to with "you know, yo…

"Alcohol is humanity's oldest friend. How could I abandon a friend?" - Yang Wenli The difference is the huge influence alcohol has had on all human cultures throughout history. Yes, it's poison, but it's our poison.

I'll tell that to my alcoholic mom next time I'm home and she's done downing her daily bottle of wine, I'm sure I'll feel much better

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#279

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

dbbk wrote: post #260
Arch-TK wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people who say "I've been X years sober" are usually recovering alcoholics (or almost alcoholics). In most cases (except the cases described above), alcoholism is something people are predisposed to. Some people get a high from the process of getting drunk (and stop feeling that high once they are no longer getting more drunk) these people are the ones who usually become alcoholics if they don't just dec…

Yeah you can certainly get in a state where your brain gets chemically unbalanced and addicted to the dopamine hit of a drink. I could never have one drink, once I'd had one my brain would want more and more and all logic would go out the window, it would be a death spiral until I blackout. Even though I'm a smart guy and know that will happen. I recently started on Naltrexone which is a opioid blocker which stops th…

I have naltrexone and while it’s no miracle drug it does help. I find it makes me feel weird and sick for 2-3 days after I take it, but it does help a lot with cravings. If you’re doing the Sinclair method you have to be really diligent to take it at least 45 minutes before your first drink or it won’t be as effective.

If you take it daily you also are supposed to wear a bracelet since it effectively makes you immune to regular painkillers so if you were to get into a car accident or something they need to know not to give you morphine since it won’t have its intended effect

Overall I would say it’s a decent solution if you have a problem like OP has, but unless you take it every day it won’t solve crippling alcoholism for you. The scientific literature really only backs taking it every day and say the efficacy of the Sinclair method long term is not statistically significant. But it does help me, since being able to not drink for me is pretty easy, but once I flip the drink switch on it’s hard to stop - basically exact situation as parent poster

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#280

Post by thisgoesnowhere »

miduil wrote: post #259
Arch-TK wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people who say "I've been X years sober" are usually recovering alcoholics (or almost alcoholics). In most cases (except the cases described above), alcoholism is something people are predisposed to. Some people get a high from the process of getting drunk (and stop feeling that high once they are no longer getting more drunk) these people are the ones who usually become alcoholics if they don't just dec…

I wouldn't say I was an alcoholic or a drug addict either. Just made the conscious decision that no-alcohol has more benefits/is simpler for me than trying to balance things out.

All the power to ya. I think the only weird thing is that I'm seeing a much larger body of completely sober people telling others to go completely sober.

Just do what works for you it's not a life ending vice to enjoy getting drunk once in a while.

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