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The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

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Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#91

Post by rdudek »

nine_zeros wrote: post #64
usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

This. I don't understand why this is up for debate. Working hard does not buy a house, a convenient apartment, a promotion to higher income, equity at low prices, a lifestyle where one can find partners and settle down, kids, kids education. We are talking about the basics, not avocado toast or international vacations. The juice just ain't worth the squeeze in America any longer.

It's not up for debate. The ruling class is making it a valid point without offering a solution to the problem. It's a lot easier to whine and complain versus actually tackling the issues at hand.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#92

Post by BirAdam »

nine_zeros wrote: post #64
usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

This. I don't understand why this is up for debate. Working hard does not buy a house, a convenient apartment, a promotion to higher income, equity at low prices, a lifestyle where one can find partners and settle down, kids, kids education. We are talking about the basics, not avocado toast or international vacations. The juice just ain't worth the squeeze in America any longer.

I would make two observations here. First, costs are up. Not just housing and school, but also cars. Additionally, people are required to have smart phones. Most clothing is of poor quality and will need to be repurchased. Food is of poor quality if it’s cheap and therefore health costs get higher.

Second, in a low interest rate environment, any crazy idea gets funding. This squanders time and resources as many bad ideas get funded which would otherwise be laughed away. The low interest rates also encourage monetary inflation which first pushes up asset class prices, and later filters into retail prices. Wages are always the last segment to see price rises as pressure must be put on businesses to raise the price of labor. Essentially, when a company cannot get employees they will begin raising pay for open positions or they will go out of business. This pressure takes time to build. We see it now in fast food and groceries, and we saw it some time ago in the blue collar trades.

The major fix for this is higher interest rates… significantly higher. People would need to be willing to accept a slower growth rate in exchange for more predictable and more stable long term growth.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#93

Post by fbdab103 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #7

Similarly … The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. 400BC

Here I am just wondering why crossing of legs was inappropriate.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#95

Post by nxx788 »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #58

As a tech lead, the big problem I see now is that people are not hungry anymore. The best engineers I've ever worked with were consistently asking for more and leveling up the team at the same time. Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by, and they seem totally unbothered by it. One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog." I eve…

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Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#96

Post by TheCaptain4815 »

usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

I recall a Twitter thread where a lawyer mentions she couldn’t afford the apartment she rented as a law student now that she was an actual lawyer 10-15 years later.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#97

Post by svachalek »

JadeNB wrote: post #10
api wrote: post #2

It's always nobody wants to work anymore at the wages you are presently offering. It's like concluding we've run out of oil because the price of gasoline went up.

> It's always nobody wants to work anymore at the wages you are presently offering. > It's like concluding we've run out of oil because the price of gasoline went up. I don't think that these are really perfectly analogous—there really is probably the same, if not greater, supply of workers as there ever was if the wages were right; but, no matter how much we're willing to pay, there's less oil available now than the…

We're very close to record highs. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=m...

If you're talking about oil in the ground, it's pedantic and not relevant to market pricing.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#98

Post by BirAdam »

skrebbel wrote: post #55

My theory is that this is all true, and it’s fantastic. Generally, over the last century, in year X, nobody wants to work anymore compared to year Y (Y This is a success of social democracy and it is a success of technology. We can afford to have people work less hard and still be richer than we ever were. It’s the success story of western progress and the rest of the world is going through the same steps as we speak…

Interesting opinion. I’ll need to think on that for a bit. Thanks for offering it.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#99

Post by nxx788 »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #73
nine_zeros wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a tech lead, the big problem I see now is that people are not hungry anymore. The best engineers I've ever worked with were consistently asking for more and leveling up the team at the same time. Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by, and they seem totally unbothered by it. Because they see management not pulling their weight for the pay they get. Why s…

What do you consider a fair pay for junior engineers in order for them to contribute at the capacity they're expected to? Our fresh college grads are paid a total compensation higher than $200K. Is that not enough to expect working, at minimum , 8 hours a day?

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Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#100

Post by 23B1 »

The easiest way for leaders to mitigate the problem of 'not wanting to work' is to make work a more desirable place to be. It's not even hard to do. Some simple rules for managers and leaders:

1. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Remember all the shitty bosses you had, and be the first to break the cycle.

2. Pay people slightly above market rate. Make that your #1 hiring message: "We pay above market rate" and watch the referrals flow. Turn your employees into evangelists and you won't need a platoon's-worth of recruiters.

3. Be very loud and very public about commonsense balance of work and just 'life'. No emails after 5, prioritize social-family events like PTA meetings, or dates, or "Hey I'm gonna take my team bowling Friday afternoon, can I expense the chicken tendies?"

4. You can't build culture; it's created from within. Embrace what your employees bring culture-wise and make THAT your work culture.

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