Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

mstdn.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 511 posts

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#71

Post by tristor »

swayvil wrote: post #46
gambiting wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Blaming workers for their poor conditions is elitist and fragile advice I literally don't see where I said such a thing.

You literally told the worker that his misery is his own fault for having chosen the wrong job.

There’s a difference between blame and prudence. It’s not blaming him to suggest he is empowered to change his conditions. If someone eschews prudence once aware of it, then they do bear some accountability for their outcomes, but even accountability is not blame. The confusion of the two has become commonplace as our society tries to avoid any conception of accountability.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#72

Post by cs702 »

Brilliant.

It should be memorialized forever somewhere easily accessible by everyone.

That way, when silly people complain that "nobody wants to work anymore," they can quickly be shown how uninformed and unoriginal they are.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Or, as The Who succinctly put it: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#73

Post by lopkeny12ko »

nine_zeros wrote: post #67
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #58

As a tech lead, the big problem I see now is that people are not hungry anymore. The best engineers I've ever worked with were consistently asking for more and leveling up the team at the same time. Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by, and they seem totally unbothered by it. One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog." I eve…

> As a tech lead, the big problem I see now is that people are not hungry anymore. The best engineers I've ever worked with were consistently asking for more and leveling up the team at the same time. Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by, and they seem totally unbothered by it. Because they see management not pulling their weight for the pay they get. Why s…

What do you consider a fair pay for junior engineers in order for them to contribute at the capacity they're expected to? Our fresh college grads are paid a total compensation higher than $200K. Is that not enough to expect working, at minimum, 8 hours a day?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#74

Post by quelsolaar »

I want to live in a world, where no one have to work in order to live a decent life, but I dont want to live in a world that has forgotten how fulfilling work can be.

I live for my work because it is engaging, challenging, and is my way of contributing to society. I want to live a life that contributes more to the world then it consumes. The Anti-work movement has a lot of good criticism of our capitalist society, but also throws the idea of work as way of contributing to society under the buss. People who work long hours arent suckers.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#75

Post by pineaux »

arp242 wrote: post #42
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #7

Similarly … The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. 400BC

This is of course the famous quote from Socrates, and I absolutely hate this "argument". "Socrates was wrong in 400BC and it's wrong today" is one possible scenario, but it's also entirely possible that: - Socrates was right in 400BC. - at multiple points in 2,400 years there was a problem with "kids these days". - Socrates was wrong in 400BC, but it's fair today or at other points in history. It's just a complete no…

Definitely not a non-argument. Its a circumstancial argument, that does not prove a whole lot, but its perfect against a unsubstantiated claim like the one its used against. It doesnt even have to have happened to be a good argument, because the counterparty does not give any facts either. Just a hollow statement. I love the Monty Python sketch on this subject: https://youtu.be/VKHFZBUTA4k

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#76

Post by m0rissette »

usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

I mean maybe I have work ethic or am lucky. But I don’t struggle to pay mortgage, buy cars, or go on vacations and I am the sole breadwinner for my family… but I also started programming in 3rd grade in the 90s, didn’t go to college so have no debt, and live a pretty non materialistic punk rock life.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#77

Post by xwdv »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #58

As a tech lead, the big problem I see now is that people are not hungry anymore. The best engineers I've ever worked with were consistently asking for more and leveling up the team at the same time. Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by, and they seem totally unbothered by it. One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog." I eve…

It’s not “work from home” abuse.

You’re not really paying people to be at a computer working exactly 40 hours a week. You’re paying people to solve problems and create value. There is not a 1:1 correlation between time and results in this field. Most days I only need maybe 3 or 4 hours to take care of work related stuff.

As long as people do what is asked, why should they worry about burning out the extra time that remains?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#78

Post by jen20 »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #58

As a tech lead, the big problem I see now is that people are not hungry anymore. The best engineers I've ever worked with were consistently asking for more and leveling up the team at the same time. Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by, and they seem totally unbothered by it. One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog." I eve…

I work for a pretty successful company (by any measure), and have had multiple startup exits before that, and I would know it was time to retire immediately if I started thinking like you.

> One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog."

I once came up with the idea for a product which has generated several hundred million dollars in revenue on a dog walk in the middle of the day. This morning while on a dog walk (on Sunday), I came up with the solution to a problem which has been vexing a team of 8-9 people for many months and will unblock millions of dollars of potential.

The very notion that someone is not working because they are not in front of their computer screen marks you as someone who is wholly unfit to be a manager of people. 80% of the job of a software engineer is thinking.

> Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by

The entire industry would be better off if people just DID LESS. Complexity abounds because people want to be seen to "be doing something" to impress people like you. Again, 80% of the job of a software engineer is thinking.

> Work-from-home abuse is another component of this observation.

If you think people don't work at home, you should see what they do at an office when they can make small talk with other incapables.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#79

Post by tap-snap-or-nap »

usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

What is freedom if you are working for a top down authoritarian hierarchy ? Be it legal person or a real one. Do we get to enjoy any democracy at work ?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#80

Post by coffeefirst »

gambiting wrote: post #9
swayvil wrote: post #4

Modern work is weird. All your energy goes into it. But at the end of the day there's no satisfaction. Just emptiness and exhaustion. So you invest your remaining time in entertainments, drugs and shopping. Frantically groping for a scrap of joy. My friends in carpentry call it "feeding the monkey". The monkey must be fed, one way or another.

>>But at the end of the day there's no satisfaction. If that's the case then you need to find a different job. Plenty of people are really satisfied with what they do at work. I've accepted lower salary for years because the job I did was really satisfying and I'm still glad I was part of it.

Sure but these can be hard to find.

Let's suppose the factors that make people like their jobs are a sense of ownership, applying skills, having friends, a high level of trust, and a sense that they're contributing something useful (the classic example is the construction worker isn't laying bricks, he's building a house).

The hyper-financialized economy we find ourselves in loves meaningless Goals and OKRs, then does mass layoffs for no apparent reason besides investors like it.

This is a pretty stark misalignment in values and incentives. Of course people are unhappy with it.

Post reply on HN