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1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

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Re: 1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

#91

Post by wslh »

cubefox wrote: post #69
nerdponx wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are often taught that the bombings resulted in less loss of life than a conventional land invasion of the home islands. So it's not quite a matter of "A-bomb good". Plenty of Americans alive today lived through the Cold War too, and spent years or decades in low-level fear of nuclear war. It's not quite as simple as "nukes good therefore no criticism of nukes in movie". Part of the interest in things like t…

Yes, but the American views about specifically Hiroshima and Nagasaki seem different from most other countries, or at least from Japan. Outside the US it is quite common to view the bombings as war crimes, while this is uncommon in the US. This probably influenced how "Oppenheimer" handled the matter. (A comparison would perhaps be the difference between a Russian and a Polish film about the Sowjet invasion of Poland…

> Yes, but the American views about specifically Hiroshima and Nagasaki seem different from most other countries

I think you mean the current view of non-American generations which have never experienced or are third or four generation of an international conflict like the WWI and/or the WWII? A lot of people died in these conflicts. They were not broadcasted by TikTok, YouTube, and/or Instagram. They where not likes.

I mean, this is an unique event in history in the context of other very unique events at a huge scale. Thinking about a war crime is trying to bring a post rationality to many events that are far from that reductionism.

Re: 1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

#92

Post by thoi2u4pl4k234 »

cubefox wrote: post #49

According to a 2015 survey[1], 56% of US Americans say the bombings were justified, while 34% say they were not. This relatively positive (or non-negative) assessment of the A-bombs might have influenced their portrayal in "Oppenheimer", an American production. The Japanese re-screening of "Hiroshima" might be aimed at countering their depiction in "Oppenheimer". [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/08/04…

... and the British (and everyone in the 'enlightened West') are taught that savage destruction of Asia (incl. India/China) by European powers was for their own benefit and that they ought to be grateful for having had their ancestors murdered, subject to famine, and sometimes outright genocide (not to mention having their cultures completely destroyed to the point of total alienation).

They even do this with the so-called 'enlightened Islamic invaders' in India. The West has pathological hatred for the 'inferior pagans' and it shows very clearly; and indeed there's very clear evidence for this in white-supremacist fields like Indology[1], where half their time is spent bad-mouthing India, and the other half appropriating her.

[1]. The Nay Science - A history of German Indology (OUP).

Re: 1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

#93

Post by belorn »

cubefox wrote: post #69
nerdponx wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are often taught that the bombings resulted in less loss of life than a conventional land invasion of the home islands. So it's not quite a matter of "A-bomb good". Plenty of Americans alive today lived through the Cold War too, and spent years or decades in low-level fear of nuclear war. It's not quite as simple as "nukes good therefore no criticism of nukes in movie". Part of the interest in things like t…

Yes, but the American views about specifically Hiroshima and Nagasaki seem different from most other countries, or at least from Japan. Outside the US it is quite common to view the bombings as war crimes, while this is uncommon in the US. This probably influenced how "Oppenheimer" handled the matter. (A comparison would perhaps be the difference between a Russian and a Polish film about the Sowjet invasion of Poland…

Here in Sweden I can't recall such discussions. Large casualties from battles in Leningrad and Berlin involved millions of civilian deaths, but it mostly the actions made afterward when citizens surrender that get classified as a war crime and not the battle itself. Even explicit bombing of citizens, like The Blitz, are usually not refereed as a war crime even if it should fit the definition.

However, when discussing wars occurring in modern time, aerial and artillery bombardment that hit civilian targets do get refereed as war crime. Anti-personnel mines has also been added, which is seen as a war crime by most countries except for those who continue to use them.

Re: 1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

#94

Post by zeroCalories »

thegaulofthem wrote: post #27
gre wrote: post #25

"The bomb didnt beat Japan, Stalin did" https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-jap...

That garbage piece of writing completely ignores nearly 80 years of conventional history which includes first-hand account from the very Japanese council cited in the story. Absolute joke content that doesn’t belong on a site like this.

The article is from a respected foreign policy site, and makes a case that is well accepted by historians. You can say that the bombs were still justified(which I believe), but the attitude in these comments are borderline insane. Makes you think americans can't handle a little criticism without losing their mind.

Re: 1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

#95

Post by zht »

cubefox wrote: post #69
nerdponx wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are often taught that the bombings resulted in less loss of life than a conventional land invasion of the home islands. So it's not quite a matter of "A-bomb good". Plenty of Americans alive today lived through the Cold War too, and spent years or decades in low-level fear of nuclear war. It's not quite as simple as "nukes good therefore no criticism of nukes in movie". Part of the interest in things like t…

Yes, but the American views about specifically Hiroshima and Nagasaki seem different from most other countries, or at least from Japan. Outside the US it is quite common to view the bombings as war crimes, while this is uncommon in the US. This probably influenced how "Oppenheimer" handled the matter. (A comparison would perhaps be the difference between a Russian and a Polish film about the Sowjet invasion of Poland…

well the countries most affected by Japan's atrocities (including the second most populous country in the world) certainly don't see it as such.

if anything I would say that most of the world's population do not see it as much

Re: 1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

#96

Post by lazide »

cubefox wrote: post #69
nerdponx wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are often taught that the bombings resulted in less loss of life than a conventional land invasion of the home islands. So it's not quite a matter of "A-bomb good". Plenty of Americans alive today lived through the Cold War too, and spent years or decades in low-level fear of nuclear war. It's not quite as simple as "nukes good therefore no criticism of nukes in movie". Part of the interest in things like t…

Yes, but the American views about specifically Hiroshima and Nagasaki seem different from most other countries, or at least from Japan. Outside the US it is quite common to view the bombings as war crimes, while this is uncommon in the US. This probably influenced how "Oppenheimer" handled the matter. (A comparison would perhaps be the difference between a Russian and a Polish film about the Sowjet invasion of Poland…

Near as I can tell, the nukes were far less of a war crime than the fire bombings (which killed far more). And the fire bombings get far less press.

Nukes are far more sensational and abstract I guess, compared to the terrible reality of burning hundreds of thousands alive more slowly in their own homes.

Moral of the story I guess - don’t start shit.

Re: 1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

#97

Post by numpad0 »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #81
geon wrote: post #72

Can someone parse the title for me? I feel like there might be a couple of garden paths in there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence

"1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo" > The 1953 movie "Hiroshima", about the atom bomb, will be screening in Tokyo. The movie had 88,000 extras. (The word 'Phantom' is confusing. According the article, the movie is called a "phantom" movie because it was produced in Japan but was not released in Japan due to a dispute between the publisher and the filmmakers.)

For context: "the phantom of ___(幻の___)" is a common clickbait phrase in Japanese media, used in similar manners to "legendary", "forbidden" or "hidden" in English. I would guess "A Forgotten 1953 Film 'Hiroshima'" would be a less accurate but more understandable translation.

Re: 1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

#98

Post by TaylorAlexander »

numpad0 wrote: post #97
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo" > The 1953 movie "Hiroshima", about the atom bomb, will be screening in Tokyo. The movie had 88,000 extras. (The word 'Phantom' is confusing. According the article, the movie is called a "phantom" movie because it was produced in Japan but was not released in Japan due to a dispute between the publisher and the filmmakers.)

For context: "the phantom of ___(幻の___)" is a common clickbait phrase in Japanese media, used in similar manners to "legendary", "forbidden" or "hidden" in English. I would guess "A Forgotten 1953 Film 'Hiroshima'" would be a less accurate but more understandable translation.

Oh that is helpful thank you!

Re: 1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

#99

Post by cameldrv »

Frankly, for all of the hand wringing over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it pales in comparison to Japanese atrocities in China and many other places.

In stark contrast to Germany where every school kid learns about the millions killed in the Holocaust, the rape of Nanking and many, many more atrocities by Imperial Japan are routinely denied altogether in Japan.

When it comes to the U.S., I can say that I certainly learned about the bombings, it was presented as extremely morally ambiguous, our class held a debate over it, and I was shown pictures of atomic bomb victims in the textbooks I was given.

Re: 1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo

#100

Post by darkclouds »

WalterBright wrote: post #88
darkclouds wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why history is selectively taught at schools. Here in the UK we werent taught anything about Hiroshima but whilst its portrayed as shortening the war, thats using an argument which is hard to prove. It also means that once that step is taken, ie dropping the bomb, there is no going back, the US will have to remain the dominant power for the foreseeable future in order to prevent retaliation. This then undermi…

> I cant believe so many people were willing to go fight for a side The price of freedom is always blood. Don't take your freedoms as a given - many have died for them.

Freedom is death, dont big up the slavery now. Thats why euthanasia is not legal in so many countries.
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