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If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

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Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#431

Post by sershe »

burnished wrote: post #422
sershe wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subjectively worse, not objectively worse. I think driving is much more convenient and nice for most things I like to do. The only exceptions I can think of are if I were a kid in a car-centric area (strangely, the thinking in the US is usually reversed, kids supposedly need to be in the burbs), or if I was drunk. I don't often get drunk, so I'd prefer to drive for everything from minor groceries to outdoor activitie…

Normally I'd agree with your pedantry, but seriously have you been to LA? "Objective" feels like the right qualifier in this case

I've visited, although didn't spend much time in the city itself. I think it's not amazing for me cause other amenities LA has are not the type of stuff I need or enjoy, and there's a huge number of people who do need and enjoy them making the place really crowded. On the other hand, Amsterdam wouldn't be my first choice for similar reason (I've visited a couple times).

If choosing between areas that either are less crowded, or have all the stuff I enjoy, I'd prefer an LA-like one to an Amsterdam-like one.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#432

Post by Kuinox »

xyzelement wrote: post #429

I didn't have a car between college and my late 30s. I thought I was a pro-walking chauvinist but turns out I was just a single guy living in NYC. Within a year of our first kid, I was living in the burbs with a large SUV. Anti car people tend to be single or at least childless and they fail to understand that the majority of Americans aren't like them. About 40 percent of households have kids under 18, ie 60-80% of…

That's because you live in a car centric place. In a well designed city, a car is optional. I recommend watching Not Just Bikes videos on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes/videos

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#433

Post by 4iuvosvjf23 »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #223
skrebbel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain this to me? For example, my local supermarket is a 8 minute walk from my house. Driving there would take about 5 minutes, due to one way streets etc, so including the hassle of parking etc it takes about as long. Driving there seems positively insane to me, except if I’m shopping for a party or something and need to fill the trunk. Are you saying that Americans would choose the car here? Or that in Am…

Americans don't live in cities, or in towns, or in villages. They are farmed in facilities called "housing developments", where there are no stores. A developer purchases large plots of agricultural land, and colludes with government to put a sprawling system of widely-separated four- to six- lane roads through it (often by widening and paving country roads until they are unrecognizable). Then, to hide this ugliness…

As someone who has become increasingly bitter about and alienated from the American lifestyle because of this issue, this comment made my day. Brutal, biting, hilarious. Thanks for writing it.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#434

Post by systems_glitch »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #415
msla wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Los Ángeles Why the accent? Is it not the one in California?

Reminds me of the runin I had with someone from San Rafael north of SF. They corrected me when I pronounced it as the spanish name it is. Apparently it's officially pronounced ra-fell, and they're adamant about it.

Our town is Buena Vista, the first word is pronounced "Bew-nuh" -- and it's not strictly local, horse saddles were produced here in the early 1900s until I guess sometime before WW2, and old-timers who worked horses in the surrounding states know the local pronunciation!

The conflict aversion way to pronounce it is "BV" :P

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#435

Post by balfirevic »

danny_codes wrote: post #139
lelanthran wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get toddlers to daycare, preteens to soccer practice, etc.

Well in a well-designed city, you could just walk to all those things. From my house in Berkeley, CA, daycare is about 400 meters from my house. There are two fields of soccer-ing size, one about 10 minutes away and one 25 minutes by foot. The grocery store is a 4 minute walk, my hairdresser is a 1 minute walk, CVS is a 3 minute walk. I also have an amazing park with play structures, basketball courts, tennis courts,…

> There's nothing special about where I live except that it's development predates the automobile.

Seems like there is, and it's that it's very rich? Because something like this:

> an amazing park with play structures, basketball courts, tennis courts, large gracy field, a creek, picnic areas, and such about a 1 minute walk away.

doesn't exist in the entirety of my city, which also predates cars.

Also, do you mean a detached house when you say "from my house"? How many customers within 5-10 minute walking distance does (for example) hairdresser serve in such place?

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#436

Post by xyzelement »

Kuinox wrote: post #432
xyzelement wrote: post #429

I didn't have a car between college and my late 30s. I thought I was a pro-walking chauvinist but turns out I was just a single guy living in NYC. Within a year of our first kid, I was living in the burbs with a large SUV. Anti car people tend to be single or at least childless and they fail to understand that the majority of Americans aren't like them. About 40 percent of households have kids under 18, ie 60-80% of…

That's because you live in a car centric place. In a well designed city, a car is optional. I recommend watching Not Just Bikes videos on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes/videos

You might have missed or forgot the start of my post where I told you I lived in NYC (an immensely walkable city) without a car for 20+ years.

And that I gave it up quickly and gladly for a more car-based life once kids came.

The whole point of my post is a shift in perspective. Just curious, how many kids do you have?

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#437

Post by rconti »

toddmorey wrote: post #381
degrews wrote: post #106

I moved from Spain to the US, and I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Here are some other examples of things that I think contribute to the hostile walking experience in the US: * Cars parked in short driveways often extend all the way across the sidewalk. Even if you can easily step off onto the road to walk around them…

Adding even MORE to the insult is this part from the article: "many agencies will simply remove pedestrian facilities to reduce the cost of compliance". I see that so often: having to cross the damn intersection three times just to continue across, and all the light timings favor cars. It's a big middle finger.

I see this all the time. It makes me SO angry. They do the same thing for construction. "Oh, sorry, the bike lane is closed for the next 2 years. Sorry, sidewalk closed. Walk 10 more minutes for the next 2 years."

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#438

Post by systems_glitch »

PaulHoule wrote: post #323
grecy wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time a politician anywhere in the world suggests adding more freeways or more lanes to freeways, I think they should be forced to live in LA for a year and do a ~1 hour commute each way in traffic. They need to see first hand what happens when you just add more freeways and more lanes. It's not good.

Try Massachusetts. You drive just as far, there are hardly any businesses to patronize on your commute (except for maybe two Dunkin Donuts), sometimes traffic is going 95 mph at 1am in the morning on Rt 128 in heavy rain, and it snows.

Out in route 128, down by the power lines.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#439

Post by rewmie »

sershe wrote: post #410
badtension wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objectively we are still animals that need at least some movement. The environment described by the parent is hostile to our most basic needs.

I find I'd much rather drive to the mountains, or a lake, or at least a nice big park, and recreate there. Walking to a store in Amsterdam or Munich or Vancouver or Moscow was neither much fun nor a lot of exercise.

I'm not sure you noticed you actually said you'd rather have enjoyable but infrequent events in one place than basic mundane and recurring chores.

A honest, objective comparison would be between going to a store in, say, LA or Amsterdam, and going to a lake or nice big park in LA or Amsterdam.

In Amsterdam, you can go to stores on foot without any issue. Not in LA.

In LA you need to drive for hours to go to any of the nice spots you listed. In Amsterdam you can walk to a nice park or a nice lake, and for the same amount of time you need to drive in LA to reach any decent spot, in Amsterdam you can actually reach at least two different countries, and by train you can reach spots like Paris.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#440

Post by badtension »

sershe wrote: post #410
badtension wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objectively we are still animals that need at least some movement. The environment described by the parent is hostile to our most basic needs.

I find I'd much rather drive to the mountains, or a lake, or at least a nice big park, and recreate there. Walking to a store in Amsterdam or Munich or Vancouver or Moscow was neither much fun nor a lot of exercise.

I am not talking about spending the leisure time but the amount of movement we need every day just to keep our bodies healthy. Sitting all the time is detrimental to us.
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