Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

streets.mn

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 713 posts

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#291

Post by lozenge »

skrebbel wrote: post #13
paulcole wrote: post #4

The thing is we (as an American society) really don’t want a shift to walking. We like the idea of walking more but won’t actually do it. Instead we’ll make up a million excuses about why we just can’t walk. I say this as someone who at 40 years old has never learned to drive and who has walked/bicycled/taken the bus virtually everywhere I’ve needed to go. And I’ve lived in very rural and very suburban areas, as well…

Can you explain this to me? For example, my local supermarket is a 8 minute walk from my house. Driving there would take about 5 minutes, due to one way streets etc, so including the hassle of parking etc it takes about as long. Driving there seems positively insane to me, except if I’m shopping for a party or something and need to fill the trunk. Are you saying that Americans would choose the car here? Or that in Am…

What the other commenters haven't mentioned is that it's a 25 minute walk... to one store... then a 25 minute walk to another store, then a 25 minute walk to a gym, etc. Whereas in Europe when you walk to a high street, there's a reasonable variety of shops and services there.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#292

Post by paulcole »

fnimick wrote: post #257
paulcole wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think I called anyone a loser. It’s fine for people to say they want to do something and then not do it. I’m just saying that it can be done. Either do it or don’t. > Yes, but why would they when a thing is painful and unpleasant? Because sometimes things that are painful and unpleasant have benefits that outweigh the pain and unpleasantness?

Perhaps when those things have a benefit to society, we should invest in infrastructure to make them more pleasant, rather than browbeating people as lazy if they don't brave urban arterial roads to walk to a grocery store?

I’m not saying they’re lazy or browbeating anyone.

I’m saying they’re lying to themselves. Nothing wrong with that. Whatever it takes to get through life. I lie to myself about a lot of things to make the days go by easier.

But yeah, wait for those infrastructure investments to come and tell yourself that once they’re here you’ll walk more. Or go out and walk today. Or don’t. Doesn’t really matter at all.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#293

Post by ufmace »

whimsicalism wrote: post #177
wantoncl wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC bike messengers. And rollerbladers. Not sure how it is now, but in the late 90's they were exactly as the other poster described. Fail to yield, swerving in front of buses and flipping off the drivers if they honked. Utter contempt for everyone else. I was in far more danger of getting injured by them than any vehicle, and this was Manhattan traffic. Plenty of stories of grandmas getting knocked down by rollers a…

> I was in far more danger of getting injured by them than any vehicle, and this was Manhattan traffic. Sorry but the stats just don't bear this out. I've lived in dense cities my entire life. Stories, anecdotes, etc. do not reflect the reality of what is more likely to cause you harm.

Statistics are not a good indicator either because most events never get recorded. Nobody keeps statistics on how often cyclists whiz within inches of pedestrians on the sidewalk, scrape by people, or knock people over but they get right back up again with a few bruises. It doesn't get recorded unless the police get involved or somebody goes to the hospital, both of which are pretty rare. Believing you understand what's going on just by looking at statistics is terribly naive.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#294

Post by marfil »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #279
bichiliad wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can find a ton of much worse examples than the US, but the US is just vastly far behind Europe (i.e. Spain, to which OP was comparing the US to). Plus, it's worth mentioning that while Tokyo has a lot of mixed-traffic streets, the streets are small, have very low speed limits, and have strong restrictions on the size and type of car that can actually be within the city. It's less like you're walking in traffic an…

Unpopular opinion: We (US) should stop subsidizing Europe's security while they are better than us and can afford to do so. https://cvafoundation.org/does-the-us-subsidize-european-def...

Unpopular indeed. Opinions don't exist to be voiced, and nobody asked.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#295

Post by jhot »

mm007emko wrote: post #188
degrews wrote: post #106

I moved from Spain to the US, and I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Here are some other examples of things that I think contribute to the hostile walking experience in the US: * Cars parked in short driveways often extend all the way across the sidewalk. Even if you can easily step off onto the road to walk around them…

"Often refuse to serve you" means that they sometimes do? I tried to go through a drive-thru on a bicycle in Czechia and they told me to fuck off.

I live in the US in a "platinum rated" bike city (so there are a relatively high amount of bike commuters) and have gone through drive throughs on my bike a handful of times. Every time I have been served but told not to do it again.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#296

Post by laserlight »

rz2k wrote: post #152
closeparen wrote: post #3

This lens is underutilized in the discourse, but people feel it acutely. Even a lot of the anti-cycling stance comes down to, “What am I, poor?” When you are using transportation infrastructure that’s designed with contempt for you, you know, and you don’t want to be there. See also: rail slow zones, buses that shimmy and rattle violently on imperfect pavement, how Muni trains close their doors and pull one foot out…

I have a pretty strong anti-cycling stance, because I watched my New York neighborhood that was a pedestrian paradise significantly degraded by bike lanes. The balance of walking, subways, busses, taxis and delivery trucks had worked pretty well. Bicyclists introduced the concept of failing to yield, then acting indignant and entitled.

Louis Rossmann talked about cyclists not respecting pedestrians yesterday [0].

[0] NYC's toxic ebike culture almost killed 4 people; let's talk about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrtLWilSoNI

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#297

Post by smodo »

lionkor wrote: post #219
smodo wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an American perspective it could be. Amsterdam is the largest city in our country and it still pulls together walking, cycling and public transport in a way that doesn’t suck. Of course smaller towns have it easier in some ways because of the way Dutch towns are historically configured. What makes the large cities interesting is that they are somewhat metropolitan and still have the Dutch vibe.

Driving in Amsterdam sucks, parking costs you your leg per five minutes, bikes are very agressive, pedestrians fill the roads because there is more tourism than the city was designed for. Its one of the worst places in NL I've been, from a driving perspective.

I don’t like it either but it’s very easy to get around if you aren’t in a car. So a good example.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#298

Post by Silhouette »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #159
Silhouette wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the conditions around the Mediterranean in recent weeks I'm not sure citing Barcelona as an example of why cities don't need trees to be walkable will be a convincing argument. Barcelona is a great place but it's also horrible to walk around at lunchtime on a hot summer day.

And yet, there's way more walking going on there on average than in typical US cities. That's my point. Just like snow can be an impediment for biking, and yet Oulu Finland has way more biking than US cities with much milder climates.

And yet, there's way more walking going on there on average than in typical US cities.

As far as I can tell there's probably also more walking going on on the dark side of the moon on average than in typical US cities so I'm not sure that's a great argument either.

Trees provide both natural shade and natural greenery. Both are well established as creating more pleasant environments for people.

Barcelona is a wonderful city and it's very walkable but it would be much more pleasant to walk around it between late morning and mid-afternoon for half of the year if the main pedestrian areas and connecting corridors had better coverage. I don't understand how this claim is controversial.

If you want to encourage people to walk more in places that have a firmly entrenched prejudice against it and a similarly passionate obsession with motor vehicles then you are going to need all the advantages you can get. Trees are a win in multiple ways and if properly planned they cost very little in either installation or maintenance compared to the value they bring. Again I don't understand how this claim is controversial.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#299

Post by gruez »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #250
inconceivable wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

greyhound literally is for poor people.

Surprisingly, more people are opting for Greyhound because of the horrors of flying since COVID-19. Greyhound is also, in my mind, significantly different than regional public transit. I consider it more like an airline for poor people. Public transit, definitely there are poor people using it, and there are also commuters, especially on the Express lines, which have a premium fare and operate exclusively during offi…

> Surprisingly, more people are opting for Greyhound because of the horrors of flying since COVID-19.

Are we talking during the covid era (eg. 2020-2022), or the post-covid era (2023+)? I can understand how flying during the covid era sucked with mandatory masks and PCR tests, but my flights in 2023 were all pleasant. All the covid protocols were lifted, and I didn't experience any long lines at check-in or at customs/passport/security lines.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#300

Post by kccqzy »

jhot wrote: post #295
mm007emko wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Often refuse to serve you" means that they sometimes do? I tried to go through a drive-thru on a bicycle in Czechia and they told me to fuck off.

I live in the US in a "platinum rated" bike city (so there are a relatively high amount of bike commuters) and have gone through drive throughs on my bike a handful of times. Every time I have been served but told not to do it again.

But did they explain why?
Post reply on HN