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If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

streets.mn

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Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#111

Post by Macha »

xtracto wrote: post #58
goda90 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have literally seen people scoff at biking or riding the bus as something for poor people. It is a common sentiment.

Anecdote time. Ten years ago I (Mexican, living in Mexico, a bit "white-er" than the average Mexican skin color) worked for a Silicon Valley startup with HQs in Mountain View. One time I was visiting said HQ, I met several people, I got to talk with one of them (Chinese/Asiatic looking woman) about how I was moving while I was there, and where was I staying (she didn't know where I was from). At some point I told her…

Yeah, I had a similar experience as a European travelling to the US. My coworkers were horrified at the idea that I'd take a bus.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#112

Post by Silhouette »

goda90 wrote: post #36
gruez wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even a lot of the anti-cycling stance comes down to, “What am I, poor?” I agree with the overall point that people don't want to cycle because the experience sucks, but your description feels like an unnecessarily inflammatory way to say "people are willing to pay for a more pleasant experience". Nobody says "a lot of the anti-cheap laptop stance comes down to, "what am I, poor?".

I have literally seen people scoff at biking or riding the bus as something for poor people. It is a common sentiment.

Looking down on cyclists is a common sentiment in some parts of the world. Meanwhile here in Cambridge (the UK one) there are numerous people who cycle around the city simply because it's a better way to get around for lots of reasons. Those people range from students at the universities who in many cases will have very little disposable income to professionals with some of the most highly paid jobs in the country.

The idea that cycling is "for poor people" seems quite bizarre after living somewhere like this. Indeed it is one of the few things - in a city among the worst in the UK for inequality - that truly spans almost all financial and social classes.

The idea that a lot more money and resources need to be invested in improving facilities to make cycling and walking more attractive does resonate though. The arguments made in the article look on point here.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#113

Post by pbhjpbhj »

UtopiaPunk wrote: post #86
gruez wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even a lot of the anti-cycling stance comes down to, “What am I, poor?” I agree with the overall point that people don't want to cycle because the experience sucks, but your description feels like an unnecessarily inflammatory way to say "people are willing to pay for a more pleasant experience". Nobody says "a lot of the anti-cheap laptop stance comes down to, "what am I, poor?".

There's an ad in rotation right now on a popular local radio station where the whole bit is that character A's car isn't working, and character B talks about the great deals at a specific car dealership. "Don't walk," he exclaims and he shares the gospel of car ownership. Literally, the whole framing is that walking sucks and is embarrassing :(

It's like idiocracy where they say something like "you drink water? like water, that you use to flush the toilet?". People are easily manipulated because they want to signal that they're valuable and/or rich; "walking is for poor people" ... well yes, also people who want to stay fit, or who care about the environment, or want to be closer to their community, or ...

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#114

Post by slothtrop »

akira2501 wrote: post #93

"People should walk!" Pictures of miles long suburban corridors with no services or business along them. Maybe.. people don't walk there.. because there's no _reason_ to be walking there. If you want people to walk, give them a reason other than "I don't like cars."

That's what "15 min cities" is about. The YIMBYs also push for accessible amenities, through zoning changes, to make areas more walkable.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#115

Post by danny_codes »

jeffrallen wrote: post #80

I liked lots of this, but I really disagree with the night shot. What about the dignity of the people living along the bright (overly) lighted sidewalk, who lose their dark skies and dark bedrooms? Street lights suck, and should be absolutely minimized, and turned off at 22h. If you feel intimidated by the dark, you can solve that for yourself: don't shine your fears into my windows.

There is actually a simple solution, which is to put red lights on street lamps instead of white lights. You can buy LEDs which emit only in frequencies that won't disturb circadian rhythms.

They are a bit more expensive, but I think the reason we don't do this is because planners/governments are probably unaware of the problematic nature of light pollution.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#116

Post by RealityVoid »

Macha wrote: post #111
xtracto wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote time. Ten years ago I (Mexican, living in Mexico, a bit "white-er" than the average Mexican skin color) worked for a Silicon Valley startup with HQs in Mountain View. One time I was visiting said HQ, I met several people, I got to talk with one of them (Chinese/Asiatic looking woman) about how I was moving while I was there, and where was I staying (she didn't know where I was from). At some point I told her…

Yeah, I had a similar experience as a European travelling to the US. My coworkers were horrified at the idea that I'd take a bus.

The one time I had visited and hadto travel longer distance in the US I took a greyhound and boy, it was a interesting experience. Back home, going by bus was the norm but in the US it's... Really different.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#117

Post by ta1243 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #113
UtopiaPunk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an ad in rotation right now on a popular local radio station where the whole bit is that character A's car isn't working, and character B talks about the great deals at a specific car dealership. "Don't walk," he exclaims and he shares the gospel of car ownership. Literally, the whole framing is that walking sucks and is embarrassing :(

It's like idiocracy where they say something like "you drink water? like water, that you use to flush the toilet?". People are easily manipulated because they want to signal that they're valuable and/or rich; "walking is for poor people" ... well yes, also people who want to stay fit, or who care about the environment, or want to be closer to their community, or ...

If you're walking there are fewer opportunities to advertise to you

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#118

Post by bobthepanda »

thereare5lights wrote: post #67
xtracto wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote time. Ten years ago I (Mexican, living in Mexico, a bit "white-er" than the average Mexican skin color) worked for a Silicon Valley startup with HQs in Mountain View. One time I was visiting said HQ, I met several people, I got to talk with one of them (Chinese/Asiatic looking woman) about how I was moving while I was there, and where was I staying (she didn't know where I was from). At some point I told her…

What a weird thing for her to say given that Asian Americans use public transit in great numbers. Then again, I've noticed that the ones with money are utterly alien to those of us that don't have it or grew up without it.

Asian Americans lump together homeland countries of over half the world’s population.

The waves of immigration also look different demographically; the people who came over to build the railroads and staff laundromats, restaurants and nail salons are very different from the tech worker on H1B. (And the latter often look down on the former.)

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#119

Post by Silhouette »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #63
voisin wrote: post #9

If we want a shift to walking, we need cities to plant around 100x the number of trees they have. Ever walk through an old, mature neighbourhood? Usually there are tons of people on the sidewalks, and a primary reason is that there are mature trees providing plenty of shade. Then try walking in a new neighbourhood with barely any shade. It is awful.

That would help, but there are plenty of walkable cities with not-great tree cover. I don't think Barcelona or Tokyo are gonna win any awards for having lots of trees.

Given the conditions around the Mediterranean in recent weeks I'm not sure citing Barcelona as an example of why cities don't need trees to be walkable will be a convincing argument. Barcelona is a great place but it's also horrible to walk around at lunchtime on a hot summer day.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#120

Post by lancebeet »

jeffrallen wrote: post #80

I liked lots of this, but I really disagree with the night shot. What about the dignity of the people living along the bright (overly) lighted sidewalk, who lose their dark skies and dark bedrooms? Street lights suck, and should be absolutely minimized, and turned off at 22h. If you feel intimidated by the dark, you can solve that for yourself: don't shine your fears into my windows.

I'm confused by this sentiment. It's possible to illuminate the sidewalk without shining in through people's windows (or cause excess light pollution, for that matter), especially if the sidewalk is the only thing you need to illuminate and the lamps can be built lower. It's also not unjustified fear. The risk of being subjected to violent crime such as robbery, assault or rape is higher when there is no illumination.
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